Return-Path: Received: from [24.25.9.100] (HELO ms-smtp-01-eri0.southeast.rr.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3c3) with ESMTP id 881502 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 21:56:19 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=24.25.9.100; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 (cpe-024-074-185-127.carolina.res.rr.com [24.74.185.127]) by ms-smtp-01-eri0.southeast.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id j3I1tTLw020120 for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 21:55:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001401c543b9$b2b8e680$2402a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Apex Seal Groove Wear and Air Filters was Re: [FlyRotary]... Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 21:55:29 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01C54398.2B6E0E10" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C54398.2B6E0E10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Jerry for the information. Yes, I guess I saw the photos with = the hole saw and drew the incorrect conclusion {:>). I know I need to = get this engine back together, but that should be done by the end of = this coming weekend provided I get all the parts I need. But, at some point I want to experiment on those housings. Then if it = turns out OK, I happened to have an 87 turbo block sitting in my shop = and two sets of good NA rotor housings as well as these turbo housings I = won't be using again. What better to build up a PP engine. I have my = old Ross gear box (true the gears are galled but then I'm not going to = fly it) and when I get my prop back from Bernie all I need to do is = build a test stand - done that once in Virginia and threw away the test = stand as I would never need it again {:<(. Sigh! so many projects and so little time=20 Thanks again Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Jerry Hey=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 8:37 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Apex Seal Groove Wear and Air Filters was Re: = [FlyRotary]... Hi Ed, I did not use a hole saw. I did find a picture of someone doing = it with a hole saw and posted it. Maybe that is what you are thinking = of. You could drill the initial hole with a hole saw and then finish off = with a boring bar. In my case we (a machinist friend and I ) made the = throttle bodies first and then bored the holes to a push fit. It would = be a good idea to practice on a junk housing. You will need a heavy = angle plate to clamp the housing to. Just use a slow feed. It is so easy = confidence grows quickly. Gluing in the inserts is no big deal either. A = couple of grooves were cut in the inserts so the epoxy would have a = mechanical lock. If you go for the interference fit, you will not have = to worry about epoxy leaking through into the housing.=20 Timing: we set the timing by finding the center line of the housing = and then measuring from it to the center of the hole. This is easy to do = in the mill with digital read outs. The hole is parallel to a line = through the center of the housing and not perpendicular to the housing. = I did it this way so that 180 degree sweeps could be used. By the way, = you can buy 1.75 o.d./1.625 i.d. steel "combo bends" from the Chassis = Shop www.chassishop.com for $16.00. Two of them will do your entire = intake. If you want to do aluminum, you are on your own as I never found = exactly what I was looking for. Ed Klepeis made the bell mouths and they = are perfect. Jerry=20 On Sunday, April 17, 2005, at 06:22 PM, Ed Anderson wrote: Hey, Jerry =20 I now have two turbo rotor housings that I feel free to try some PP = stuff. I understand that you cut the hole with a hole saw. Did you = then clean it up with a boring bar or something similar or just ram the = aluminum tube down the hole {:>)? Any prep to the hole other than = removing debris before putting the tube in it? I have your dimensions = but will await your reports on results before cutting. =20 Ed A ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Hey To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 6:47 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Apex Seal Groove Wear and Air Filters was = Re: [FlyRotary]... Thomas, my set up will not produce 250 hp because I have the 2:17 = drive. However, I still do have some hp to play with. I could sacrifice = 10 hp and still leave the airport vertically. Power Sport claims 215 hp = without ram air so I should do somewhat better than that. I will = consider your suggestions tomorrow when I have the engine in front of = me, but at first glance they look good. Some kind of double plenum will = be required, the first one supplied by ram air and housing the air = filter and the second plenum feeding the bell mouths. Jerry =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C54398.2B6E0E10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks Jerry for the information.  = Yes, I=20 guess I saw the photos with the hole saw and drew the incorrect = conclusion=20 {:>).  I know I need to get this engine back together, but that = should=20 be done by the end of this coming weekend provided I get all the parts I = need.
 
But, at some point I want to experiment = on those=20 housings.  Then if it turns out OK, I happened to have an 87 turbo = block=20 sitting in my shop and two sets of good NA rotor housings as well as = these turbo=20 housings I won't be using again.  What better to build up a PP=20 engine.  I have my old Ross gear box (true the gears are galled but = then=20 I'm not going to fly it) and when I get my prop back from Bernie all I = need to=20 do is build a test stand - done that once in Virginia and threw away the = test=20 stand as I would never need it again {:<(.
 
Sigh! so many projects and so little = time=20
 
Thanks again
 
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Jerry=20 Hey
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 = 8:37=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Apex = Seal Groove=20 Wear and Air Filters was Re: [FlyRotary]...

Hi Ed, I did not use a hole saw. I did find a picture = of=20 someone doing it with a hole saw and posted it. Maybe that is what you = are=20 thinking of. You could drill the initial hole with a hole saw and then = finish=20 off with a boring bar. In my case we (a machinist friend and I ) made = the=20 throttle bodies first and then bored the holes to a push fit. It would = be a=20 good idea to practice on a junk housing. You will need a heavy angle = plate to=20 clamp the housing to. Just use a slow feed. It is so easy confidence = grows=20 quickly. Gluing in the inserts is no big deal either. A couple of = grooves were=20 cut in the inserts so the epoxy would have a mechanical lock. If you = go for=20 the interference fit, you will not have to worry about epoxy leaking = through=20 into the housing.

Timing: we set the timing by finding the = center line=20 of the housing and then measuring from it to the center of the hole. = This is=20 easy to do in the mill with digital read outs. The hole is parallel to = a line=20 through the center of the housing and not perpendicular to the = housing. I did=20 it this way so that 180 degree sweeps could be used. By the way, you = can buy=20 1.75 o.d./1.625 i.d. steel "combo bends" from the Chassis Shop=20 www.chassishop.com for $16.00. Two of them will do your entire intake. = If you=20 want to do aluminum, you are on your own as I never found exactly what = I was=20 looking for. Ed Klepeis made the bell mouths and they are perfect. = Jerry=20



On Sunday, April 17, 2005, at 06:22 PM, Ed Anderson=20 wrote:

Hey, = Jerry
 
I=20 now have two turbo rotor housings that I feel free to try some PP=20 stuff.  I understand that you cut the hole with a hole = saw.  Did=20 you then clean it up with a boring bar or something similar or just = ram the=20 aluminum tube down the hole {:>)?  Any prep to the hole = other than=20 removing debris before putting the tube in it?  I have your = dimensions=20 but will await your reports on results before = cutting.
 
Ed=20 A

----- Original Message=20 -----
From: Jerry=20 Hey
To: Rotary=20 motors in aircraft
Sent: Sunday, April 17, = 2005 6:47=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Apex Seal Groove Wear and Air = Filters=20 was Re: [FlyRotary]...

Thomas, my set up will not produce 250 = hp=20 because I have the 2:17 drive. However, I still do have some hp to = play=20 with. I could sacrifice 10 hp and still leave the airport = vertically. Power=20 Sport claims 215 hp without ram air so I should do somewhat better = than=20 that. I will consider your suggestions tomorrow when I have the = engine in=20 front of me, but at first glance they look good. Some kind of double = plenum=20 will be required, the first one supplied by ram air and housing the = air=20 filter and the second plenum feeding the bell mouths.=20 = Jerry


 

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