Return-Path: Received: from mailout2.pacific.net.au ([61.8.0.85] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3c1) with ESMTP id 724115 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 10 Feb 2005 15:36:43 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=61.8.0.85; envelope-from=peon@pacific.net.au Received: from mailproxy2.pacific.net.au (mailproxy2.pacific.net.au [61.8.0.87]) by mailout2.pacific.net.au (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-7.1) with ESMTP id j1AKZuHn027156 for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 07:35:56 +1100 Received: from ar1 (ppp257A.dyn.pacific.net.au [61.8.37.122]) by mailproxy2.pacific.net.au (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-7.1) with SMTP id j1AKZqwE016080 for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 07:35:53 +1100 Message-ID: <001201c50faf$a9ce7320$7a25083d@ar1> From: "Leon" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: For Tom Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Microtech EFI and Tuning, was Leon's nose Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 07:32:37 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01C5100B.DC4BD890" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C5100B.DC4BD890 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Tom, Thanks for the email. I try to be precise in all my comms. Biut when I = get fired up, I do get inspired! It's my Balkan ethnic heritage! =20 By "Professional", what I mean is somebody who does dyno = tuning/Aftermarket EFI for a living. The trick is to find "The Man". = You won't find him at a Mazda Dealer. He will be a man that runs a = tuning business, and ideally, he will probably specialise in rotaries, = but not necessarily. He will probably have racing experience. We = have dozens of such shops here in Sydney, and every other state of Oz. = Some are good, some are mediocre, and some are useless. =20 With new motors, my preferred way of running them in is to stick them = in a "Mule" and just drive around for 600 miles / 1,000 km or so. It's = not just the miles/time. It's the process of multiple heat and cool = cycles which allows everything to "snuggle in". Obviously this isn't = practical for most people. But I do get the best results with motors = that have been carefully bedded-in. They tend to last longer, and run = "sweeter". Any serious race engine gets at least 2,000 kms in the mule. John, the = guy with whom I share the workshop (George has met him - they both have = a distinct liking for the cold amber liquid!!). ), is of the same = opinion Back in the '80s racing Production Street Sedans (dead stock as = a rock - no mods), John was the man to beat, He'd do the same. = Motors would be run-in on the street, and having a wrecking yard at the = time, John usually had a spare on the shelf ready to go. But I do = remember on more than the odd occasion where the yard "gronk" was stuck = in a "mule", given a fist full of dollars for fuel & food, and told to = "go for a 'burger and a 'shake"! Two or three nights of that and the = motor was ready for battle. Engines can also be run-in on a dyno, but that can become expensive. = With aircraft, the engine can be run-in doing some ground running (with = the bush turkeys) and some high speed taxying. I just don't like taking = brand-newly assembled motors and running them at full bore. At a bare = minimum, I'd always like to see at least a couple of hours at light to = moderate varying load, and several heat/cool cycles and an oil & filter = change before giving the thing "the mustard". So as for "flip-flopping", you do me a dis-service. My PREFERRED = scenario is that the engine is normally run-in first, THEN dyno'd. But = circumstances being what they are, one must cut one's coat according to = the cloth. =20 A mate of mine now has a new "bolt to the wheels" dyno. No more rollers = and melted tyres. Often, the engine can now be dyno'd directly in the = "Mule", as long as it's got the right manifolding etc. The "Mule' has = an exhaust that can be swapped to race specs in a few minutes. = Otherwise, the engine is fitted to the race car and dyno'd in race = trim, or stuck on an engine dyno. Engine dynos are better for = development, but this new "bolt-up" DynaPack axle dyno is just the = best. See: http://www.dynapack.com/ Right at the moment, I'm off the grog (probably for the next 12 months = or so at least). I've just been through a serious viral lung/heart = illness and my liver needs to be looked after. I'm also not in a fit = state to travel either, especially long distances in high flying = aircaft. So I would have to decline any such kind offer at the moment. = When I'm fit and well again, I'd like to attend Oshkosh, so maybe next = year we can get together and have a "bench race" or two. However, in the mean time, I'm sure that there are a bunch of people = in the USA (being the home of hot-rodding), who are far cleverer than = I, and are equally adept at the "black art" of tuning aftermarket EFI = systems. The trick is to find one in your neck of the woods. Cheers, Leon ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Tom=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2005 6:49 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Microtech EFI and Tuning, was Leon's nose Leon,=20 You're very articulate when you're fired up. Good info. My only = other feedback: When you refer to 'professional', it would seem that does not include = the standard tech from the Mazda dealer. It must be someone who works = in a racing circuit because they've learned more from working with = customized installations. My assumption anyway. Earlier I mentioned my intention to have my installation debugged and = dyno'd on a dyno. Wasn't it you that said a person should just stick = it in a mule and drive it to get burgers for a couple weeks? It's = okay, I won't accuse you of flip-flopping. Well, flip-flopping isn't = really a bad thing. =20 I did say in my provocative post it was my .01 cents worth.=20 If Paul were to fly you to Alabama for a few days vacation and = evaluation of your skills, would you drink American beer? Tom Leon wrote: Hey Tom, Couldn't help reading your comment: "Microtech isn't that cheap and sofar not proven that reliable = overall." =20 That sort of comment REALLY, REALLY gets up my nose,=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C5100B.DC4BD890 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Tom,
 
Thanks for the email.  I try to be = precise in=20 all my comms.  Biut when I get fired up,  I do get=20 inspired!  It's my Balkan ethnic heritage! 
 
By "Professional",  what I mean is = somebody=20 who does dyno tuning/Aftermarket EFI for a living.  The trick is to = find=20 "The Man".  You won't find him at a Mazda Dealer.  He will be = a man=20 that runs a tuning business,  and ideally,  he will probably=20 specialise in rotaries,  but not necessarily.  He will = probably have=20 racing experience.   We have dozens of such shops here in = Sydney,  and=20 every other state of Oz.  Some are good,  some are = mediocre,  and=20 some are useless. 
 
With new motors,  my preferred way = of running=20 them in is to stick them in a "Mule" and just drive around for 600 miles = / 1,000 km or so.  It's not just the miles/time.  It's = the=20 process of multiple heat and cool cycles which allows everything to = "snuggle=20 in".  Obviously this isn't practical for most people.  But I = do get=20 the best results with motors that have been carefully bedded-in.  = They tend=20 to last longer,  and run "sweeter".
 
Any serious race engine gets at least = 2,000 kms in=20 the mule.  John,  the guy with whom I share the workshop = (George=20 has met him - they both have a distinct liking for the cold amber=20 liquid!!).  ),  is of the same opinion  Back in the=20 '80s racing Production Street Sedans (dead stock as a rock - no=20 mods),  John was the man to beat,   He'd do the = same. =20 Motors would be run-in on the street,  and having a wrecking yard = at the=20 time,  John usually had a spare on the shelf ready to = go. =20 But I do remember on more than the odd occasion where the yard "gronk" = was stuck=20 in a "mule",  given a fist full of dollars for fuel & = food, and=20 told to "go for a 'burger and a 'shake"!  Two or three nights of = that and=20 the motor was ready for battle.
 
Engines can also be run-in on a = dyno,  but=20 that can become expensive.  With aircraft,  the engine can be = run-in=20 doing some ground running (with the bush turkeys) and some high speed=20 taxying.  I just don't like taking brand-newly assembled motors and = running=20 them at full bore.  At a bare minimum,  I'd always like = to see at=20 least a couple of hours at light to moderate varying load,  and = several=20 heat/cool cycles and an oil & filter change before giving the thing = "the=20 mustard".
 
So as for "flip-flopping",  you do = me a=20 dis-service.  My PREFERRED scenario is that the engine is = normally=20 run-in first,  THEN dyno'd.  But circumstances being what they = are,  one must cut one's coat according to the=20 cloth.  
 
A mate of mine now has a new "bolt to = the wheels"=20 dyno.  No more rollers and melted tyres.  Often,  the = engine=20 can now be dyno'd directly in the "Mule",  as long as it's got = the=20 right manifolding etc. The "Mule' has an exhaust that can be = swapped to=20 race specs in a few minutes. Otherwise,  the engine is fitted to = the race=20 car and dyno'd in race trim,  or stuck on an engine dyno.  = Engine=20 dynos are better for development,  but this new "bolt-up" = DynaPack=20 axle dyno is just the best.  See:
 
http://www.dynapack.com/
 
Right at the moment,  I'm off the = grog=20 (probably for the next 12 months or so at least).  I've just been = through a=20 serious viral lung/heart illness and my liver needs to be looked=20 after.  I'm also not in a fit state to travel either, especially = long=20 distances in high flying aircaft.  So I would have to decline any=20 such kind offer at the moment.  When I'm fit and well = again,  I'd=20 like to attend Oshkosh,  so maybe next year we can get together and = have a=20 "bench race"  or two.
 
However,  in the mean time,  = I'm sure=20 that there are a bunch of people in the USA (being the home of = hot-rodding),=20  who are far cleverer than I,  and are equally adept at the = "black=20 art" of tuning aftermarket EFI systems.  The trick is to find one = in your=20 neck of the woods.
 
Cheers,
 
Leon
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Tom
Sent: Thursday, February 10, = 2005 6:49=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Microtech EFI=20 and Tuning, was Leon's nose

Leon,
 
You're very articulate when you're fired up.   Good=20 info.   My only other feedback:
 
When you refer to 'professional', it would seem that does not = include the=20 standard tech from the Mazda dealer.   It must be someone = who works=20 in a racing circuit because they've learned more from working with = customized=20 installations.   My assumption anyway.
 
Earlier I mentioned my intention to have my=20 installation debugged and dyno'd on a dyno.   Wasn't it = you=20 that said a person should just stick it in a mule and drive it to = get=20 burgers for a couple weeks?   It's okay, I won't accuse you = of=20 flip-flopping.   Well, flip-flopping isn't really a bad = thing.=20   
I did say in my provocative post it was my .01 cents worth. =
 
If Paul were to fly you to Alabama for a few days vacation and = evaluation=20 of your skills, would you drink American beer?
 
Tom

Leon <peon@pacific.net.au> wrote:
Hey Tom,
 
Couldn't help reading your=20 comment:
 
 "Microtech isn't that cheap and sofar not proven that = reliable=20 overall."  
 
That =20 sort of comment REALLY,  REALLY gets up my=20 nose, 

Do you Yahoo!?
Take=20 Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile=20 phone. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C5100B.DC4BD890--