Sender: <marv@lancaironline.net> (Marvin Kaye)
To: flyrotary
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 08:23:01 -0500
Message-ID: <redirect-2071012@logan.com>
From: "Haywire" <haywire@telus.net>
Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Coolant header tank & Coolant filler neckthingy???
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Hi Guy's;
	Sorry for the delayed response to your responses, but it snowed like hell
last week, followed by lots of sunshine, so I just had to load up the
Ski-Doo and head to the mountains for a little playtime.
	I will condense my responses into one e-mail below, marked $$$$$


> Hi Todd, Check this link @ C&R Racing
> http://crracing.com/estore/partdesc.cfm?category=rad_necks   Fred
>
$$$$$
Thanks Fred. I'm not sure why this didn't come up in a "google" search, but
it's exactly what I needed. I've already ordered one along with a 19-21#
cap.


The plastic neck in your picture looks like a pressure cap attachment, since
it has an overflow port.  Why would you want plastic though?
$$$$$$
I don't actually want plastic. The Mazda picture just had a suitable neck
that would've worked fine. A local Mazda mechanic recalled that it wasn't
actually a pressure cap though, so I wanted to check before I ordered one.

I must have misunderstand what you were looking for, because it seems like
it would be easy to get an "aluminum radiator neck".  A Google search turned
up a few good hits.  Seems like you could just wander down to the local
radiator repair shop, and they would either have replacement necks on a
shelf. At the very least, a call to any custom radiator shop should get you
one.
$$$$$$
I'm not sure why but every google search for me kept sending me to an
British site that actually had some good products. A local shop that I
talked to informed me that aluminum necks are a race car thing. It seems
that most aluminum rads are plumbed to plastic tanks with a plastic neck for
the cap. Apparently it used to be common practice to epoxy a brass filler
neck onto aluminum rads in heavy trucks, but they only ran a 10 psi system.
Defiantly not an option for me.

> %%
> Only comment I can make is that I can see a stress fracture
> coming to an engine cowl near you REAL SOON where you have
> welded the pipes onto the evap cores.  You could end up with
> glycol all over your screen..  I'd hate to see you cook a motor. I just
> couldn't stand it then got blamed on the EWP by "you know who"!!
>
$$$$$$$
Leon; I'm not surprised that you picked up on this. This is an area of
concern for me as well. However it is a product of my never ending quest for
light weight & simplicity while building the most efficient cooling system
possible. They are actually very sturdy and make for a tidy installation.
What has surprised me is that while a few mechanics and other builders have
looked over my system, nobody has made any mention of this. Once I have the
engine running, I plan to use a vibration analyzer (from the mill) to
measure vibration. I also plan to closely examine this during all phases of
testing. I must confess though that I'm seriously considering just cutting a
2" piece out of each side of the "T". I had this in mind when I made it as
it is a simple matter to slide a 1" hose over the pipe stubs. The "T" would
still be used as it reduces a 1.25" hose down to 2- 1" hoses. The bottom of
the rads has a similar but longer arrangement that concerns me even more.
	You may ask why would I proceed with something that I, myself am concerned
with? Well, lets just say that I like to experiment and don't mind redoing
it later if I learn something from it. I certainly won't fly with it unless
I have full confidence that it has been fully tested and even then it will
be subjected to close inspection. With that said, I might just go down and
hack out a few chunks and replace with hose tonight.

> %5
> The bracing looks a bit flimsy,  but it's hard to tell from the pix..
> Make sure that the evap cores are well supported  and gusseted,
> preferably on rubber.  Make sure the EWP is firmly mounted as
> well.  Don't let it just dangle.
$$$$$
She's already bolted to the firewall

> %%
> You will get ALL sorts of vibration harmonics from the evap cores
> as they cop a beating from the prop blast.  As it stands,  I can see
> one of those harmonics will be the natural frequency of that piece
> of drilled out angle bracket suppoting them.  I can see them in my
> mind's eye flapping like wings!
$$$$$$
I used square tube for these brackets and only drilled out the vertical web,
as the horizontal web is where the stress will be. I probably shouldn't have
bothered drilling any where on the tube, but it just comes back to that
weight thing....
>
> I%%
>  would prefer to have short spiggots (just like a radiator) on each,
> and a T piece in the middle ,  all connected with flexible hose.  If
> you really wanted to be flash you could use Wiggins style
> couplings,  but WHATEVER you do,  the water lines MUST be
> flexible.
$$$$$$
As I've said above this is likely what I'll do. I'm surprised nobody else
has mentioned it, but I value your  opinion, so that strongly swings my
decision.


I would make the connection between the two coolers flexible hose. The are
heavy when full and move around quite a bit. I would expect the rigid tube
to
worry off of one of the coolers.
Lynn E. Hanover
$$$$$$
OK, so that makes two. Another opinion that I value. I'd still like to test
it but I'll probably not.


Gents, gaday,  (I'm feeling Ozie today)
Go to www.moroso.com for filler necks and such.
Go to www.summitracing.com for rad caps of up to 27-28 lbs.
Regards,
Tommy James<><
OK, so why the heck didn't any of these sources come up on my google
search????

$$$$$$$
	In other news, I promised a report on coolant flows with the EWP last fall.
Before I went to school I brought home a mag tube flowmeter and transmitter
which measures volumetric flow rate by detecting the velocity of a
conductive fluid that passes through a magnetic field, In other words it
doesn't introduce a restriction in order to measure flow.
	I ran a few tests, but was unhappy with the results. I was getting very
erratic signals ranging from 15 usg/m up to 45 usg/m. I increased the
sampling frequency and filtered the signal and got a steadier signal of
approx 20usg/m, but when removed the evap cores from the circuit in order to
get an idea of how much restriction that caused, the flow actually decreased
to approx 16 usg/m. This got me thinking that the location of my header tank
wasn't removing the air from the system (mag tubes don't like entrained
air).
	As I began to address this issue I also made the decision to plumb the evap
cores in parallel, and relocate/redesign a header tank. this was started
before I left for school and I'm now starting to work on this again. Last
night I began flow tests again, but was even more dismayed at the results
that I was getting. It wasn't looking too good for the EWP, so I simply
pumped from a bucket back into a bucket and this was much more impressive.
So today I borrowed some calibration equipment from the mill to check the
accuracy of this $$$$$ equipment, and as I was beginning to suspect, it was
not just out of calibration, but totally malfunctioning.
	So tomorrow I will be packing it back to work and I will repair it there
(hey, it's their stuff, I might as well fix it on their time;-)) When I get
some concrete numbers I will post them here.

Thanks for all the info guys.

S. Todd Bartrim
Turbo 13B rotary powered
RV-9endurance (FWF)
C-FSTB
http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm

           "Imagination is more important than Knowledge"
                                             -Albert Einstein


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