Return-Path: Received: from corpprd-pxy2.canfor.ca ([198.162.160.3] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2b8) with ESMTP id 336335 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 27 Jul 2004 18:07:25 -0400 Received-SPF: error receiver=logan.com; client-ip=198.162.160.3; envelope-from=Steve.Bartrim@canfor.com Received: from canformail1.canfor.ca (canformail1.canfor.ca [199.60.193.29]) by corpprd-pxy2.canfor.ca (Build 103 8.9.3p2/NT-8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01166 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 2004 15:06:53 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Dave's Turbo info Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 15:06:53 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C47426.05F8D7B0" Message-ID: <1F17B59A61D4194095359264D24D22A2708CB4@mailman.canfor.ca> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [FlyRotary] Thread-Index: AcRyv4CpVTQuPKHOTmCbssbAz1JAlQAqZbqw From: "Bartrim, Todd" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C47426.05F8D7B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Geez Dave, you've been one busy flyin' son-of-a-gun. This is great info. = How many psi of boost were you able to produce with the wastegate = disconnected? Did you just disconnect the wastegate linkage and let the = flapper float freely? A few days ago I disconnected my broken actuator and wired the flapper = wide open. Static ground runs showed that I could achieve 4 psi of boost = at WOT. I'd planned to test in flight, but a fast approaching line of = thunder cells, caused me to head home for the day and haven't been back = up since. I'm too busy today and I expect in the next few days I should = receive my new used actuator (thanks Bob) and e-Boost controller, so = I'll probably install these before I fly it again. Keep the info coming. S. Todd Bartrim (I hope this kid isn't going to keep me waiting much = longer?) Turbo 13B RX-9endurance C-FSTB http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm "Imagination is more important than knowledge" -Albert Einstein > -----Original Message----- > From: Rotary motors in aircraft [SMTP:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] > Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 8:20 PM > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary]=20 >=20 > I just completed my 40 hr. exile to the desert and finally returned = back to > the workshop and home airport. What a relief and a great feeling. I = also > took my wife up for her first ride. Her major complaints were: it = sounds > funny, it kinda smells like gas (left over from an old fuel leak), its = too > bumpy, and it goes too fast :-). =20 >=20 > The last couple flights I took some more turbo data that is = interesting. >=20 > I went to 7500 (density alt 10800) with the stock waste gate actuator > connected and collected data in level flight. I set a constant MAP = and > recorded the RPM and IAS. Then I increased MAP by 1" and waited for = steady > state and recorded again. I did this up to max prop RPM (2800), which = was > 30" MAP, 151 KIAS (173 KTAS), but only 168 Kts on the GPS (193mph). = (Based > on multi-direction GPS testing I think my ASI is reading about 5 Kts = high). >=20 >=20 > Anyway, then I disconnected the waste gate actuator and repeated the = testing > (waste gate is then always fully open). My theory is that back = pressure > from the turbo is making the engine work significantly harder than a = n.a > engine, and I hope to see higher RPM for a given MAP >=20 > The good news is that I had more RPM and IAS at any given MAP. The > difference was more pronounced at the lower MAPs, but generally there = was > about 1" MAP improvement in RPM up to about 26" where the two graphs = merged. > I guess this is about where the waste gate would be fully open even = with the > actuator. At the lower MAPs there seemed to be improved cooling as = well. >=20 > Now the bad news. It became very difficult to run lean of peak with = the > lack of an automatic waste gate actuator. Since boost is very = dependant on > RPM, even the small of pitch changes required to maintain level flight > caused enough variation in RPM to significantly change the boost - = i.e. slow > down just a little, boost drops, less RPM, less boost etc.. and in = about a > second the engine quits running. Slightly increasing the mixture is = not > enough to get it back as by then the RPM s have really dropped. It = usually > took a significant increase in mixture to start the engine again. I'm = even > starting to get used to the sensation of my engine stopping (watch out = Ed, > I'm gaining on you in glider time). It was essentially impossible to = run > significantly lean of peak. Even at the higher manifold pressures the > automatic (stock) wastegate controller did a much better job of = smoothing > out the variations in boost. With the waste gate actuator attached I = can > run WOT at 14.5k 150 deg lean of peak showing about 29" MAP. It is = equally > easy to control boost pressure (prevent over boost) with the throttle = in > either configuration. Also, when running rich of peak this rapid loss = of>=20 > power does not occur. >=20 > The questions at this point are which configuration is better and is = there a > way to fix the leaning issue? Also, how much more improvement could I = get > by opening up the waste gate a little more? Perhaps removing the = flapper > valve? The answer to the configuration issue is found in the purpose = of > each flight. Local flights full of sightseeing and aerobatics would = be > better with the actuator off. Cross country would do better with the > ability to aggressively lean at altitude. Perhaps I will eventually = make it > cockpit adjustable or better yet, just do it right and put on a huge = turbo > and wastegate. I already bought a TO4 from Bill.... Now to just make = it all > fit. >=20 > Separate e-mail to follow with separate issues. >=20 > David Leonard > The Rotary Roster > http://members.aol.com\_ht_a\rotaryroster\index.html > << File: ATT1916502.txt >>=20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C47426.05F8D7B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [FlyRotary] Dave's Turbo info

Geez Dave, you've = been one busy flyin' son-of-a-gun. This is great info. How many psi of = boost were you able to produce with the wastegate disconnected? Did you = just disconnect the wastegate linkage and let the flapper float = freely?

        A few days ago I disconnected my broken actuator = and wired the flapper wide open. Static ground runs showed that I could = achieve 4 psi of boost at WOT. I'd planned to test in flight, but a fast = approaching line of thunder cells,  caused me to head home for the = day and haven't been back up since. I'm too busy today and I expect in = the next few days I should receive my new used actuator (thanks Bob) and = e-Boost controller, so I'll probably install these before I fly it = again.

        Keep the info coming.

S. Todd Bartrim =         (I hope this kid isn't going = to keep me waiting much longer?)
Turbo = 13B
RX-9endurance
C-FSTB
http://www3.telus.= net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm

        "Imagination is more important than = knowledge"
        =         =         =         =         -Albert Einstein


    -----Original = Message-----
    From:   Rotary motors in aircraft = [SMTP:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
    Sent:   Sunday, July 25, 2004 8:20 PM
    To:     Rotary motors in aircraft
    Subject:       <= /B> [FlyRotary]

    I just completed = my 40 hr. exile to the desert and finally returned back to
    the workshop and = home airport.  What a relief and a great feeling.  I = also
    took my wife up = for her first ride.  Her major complaints were: it = sounds
    funny, it kinda = smells like gas (left over from an old fuel leak), its too
    bumpy,  and = it goes too fast :-).   

    The last couple = flights I took some more turbo data that is interesting.

    I went to 7500 = (density alt 10800) with the stock waste gate actuator
    connected and = collected data in level flight.  I set a constant MAP = and
    recorded the RPM = and IAS.  Then I increased MAP by 1" and waited for = steady
    state and = recorded again.  I did this up to max prop RPM (2800), which = was
    30" MAP, 151 = KIAS (173 KTAS), but only 168 Kts on the GPS (193mph).  = (Based
    on = multi-direction GPS testing I think my ASI is reading about 5 Kts = high).


    Anyway, then I = disconnected the waste gate actuator and repeated the = testing
    (waste gate is = then always fully open).  My theory is that back = pressure
    from the turbo is = making the engine work significantly harder than a n.a
    engine, and I = hope to see higher RPM for a given MAP

    The good news is = that I had more RPM and IAS at any given MAP.  The
    difference was = more pronounced at the lower MAPs, but generally there was
    about 1" MAP = improvement in RPM up to about 26" where the two graphs = merged.
    I guess this is = about where the waste gate would be fully open even with = the
    actuator.  = At the lower MAPs there seemed to be improved cooling as = well.

    Now the bad = news.  It became very difficult to run lean of peak with = the
    lack of an = automatic waste gate actuator.  Since boost is very dependant = on
    RPM, even the = small of pitch changes required to maintain level flight
    caused enough = variation in RPM to significantly change the boost - i.e. = slow
    down just a = little, boost drops, less RPM, less boost etc.. and in about = a
    second the engine = quits running.  Slightly increasing the mixture is = not
    enough to get it = back as by then the RPM s have really dropped.  It = usually
    took a = significant increase in mixture to start the engine again.  I'm = even
    starting to get = used to the sensation of my engine stopping (watch out Ed,
    I'm gaining on = you in glider time).  It was essentially impossible to = run
    significantly = lean of peak.  Even at the higher manifold pressures = the
    automatic (stock) = wastegate controller did a much better job of smoothing
    out the = variations in boost.  With the waste gate actuator attached I = can
    run WOT at 14.5k = 150 deg lean of peak showing about 29" MAP.  It is = equally
    easy to control = boost pressure (prevent over boost) with the throttle in
    either = configuration.  Also, when running rich of peak this rapid loss = of
    power does not = occur.

    The questions at = this point are which configuration is better and is there = a
    way to fix the = leaning issue?  Also, how much more improvement could I = get
    by opening up the = waste gate a little more?  Perhaps removing the = flapper
    valve?  The = answer to the configuration issue is found in the purpose = of
    each = flight.  Local flights full of sightseeing and aerobatics would = be
    better with the = actuator off.  Cross country would do better with the
    ability to = aggressively lean at altitude.  Perhaps I will eventually make = it
    cockpit = adjustable or better yet, just do it right and put on a huge = turbo
    and = wastegate.  I already bought a TO4 from Bill.... Now to just make = it all
    fit.

    Separate e-mail to = follow with separate issues.

    David = Leonard
    The Rotary = Roster
    http://memb= ers.aol.com\_ht_a\rotaryroster\index.html
     << = File: ATT1916502.txt >>

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