X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Fri, 02 May 2014 12:19:37 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from mout.kundenserver.de ([212.227.17.24] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.9e) with ESMTPS id 6855936 for lml@lancaironline.net; Fri, 02 May 2014 10:07:07 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=212.227.17.24; envelope-from=nick@beaglepup.info Received: from THINK7PRO (reverse.netcentral.co.uk [195.62.207.100]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mreue101) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0Lzb2g-1WsmuK3dh4-014hRv; Fri, 02 May 2014 16:06:31 +0200 X-Original-Message-ID: <0924918A80DD464EA3DB16BCB5A8D6EF@THINK7PRO> Reply-To: "Nick Long" From: "Nick Long" X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [LML] Re: VMS1000 pressure gauges on LNC2 X-Original-Date: Fri, 2 May 2014 15:02:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_010E_01CF6617.97FB8D40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 16.4.3528.331 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V16.4.3528.331 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 140502-0, 02/05/2014), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Provags-ID: V02:K0:U1z4DmFzEMQashLrLFr1EvuEpCKM5No3NXNIV6L7JlV M633mOvLTNJC6EBm2bXXmZLOBUKCVvF6xNkNp86j/FB+sq3Oze ILgkoM1uun+6WCrgsfE7oNRY0tL6ycguFc/bsT+6Jd7LnILaH0 nS67S3rNhVGw8X8eDm2kDTU/mlyMgymnJtLUrbNCfEbVu+1hU5 nAvoeqbXMjr9s0iCtoJty1gfCcVT3r8evGKQHTV3do0M4MKPxk 6FVocBvbFe9fPKj7CeuiGHnH6LGZcpybEqucnP9t6ohcu1lULe d7pakTlL9d+yzqK/WO5cVT0D9V/lXR4G7eExMqa+kr9Ce4rIKw hv7I67cWJipQbh263miQgEYK25KzVLjBlnfz70v2B This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_010E_01CF6617.97FB8D40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Bill, I think you answered the question. The US321 may be a lot better than = the original MediaMate, but it is not industry standard. Its advantage is that its a drop in replacement, which will be what some = people want. But I would prefer a solution using an industry standard = sensor. Yours, Nick From: William Rumburg=20 Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 12:28 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net=20 Subject: [LML] Re: VMS1000 pressure gauges on LNC2 Nick - My approach was to search for a transducer with the same electrical = parameters as the MediaMate, for which the VMS1000 fuel and oil pressure = indications were designed (i.e. 5VDC excitation and 50mV full-scale = output). Unfortunately, that turns out to be a combination rarely used = in industry; however, one version of the MSP US300 series has those = parameters, which makes it an exact electrical replacement. Furthermore, = MSP transducers are modern, high-quality and inexpensive - in contrast = with the antiquated, failure-prone and outrageously overpriced = MediaMate. I appreciate your efforts toward another solution, but why = not go with the US321??? Bill Rumburg =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Nick Long=20 To: lml@lancaironline.net=20 Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 12:46 PM Subject: [LML] Re: VMS1000 pressure gauges on LNC2 Hi Bill, (Bill Rumburg, that is; there are two Bills in the thread) I don=E2=80=99t disagree with anything you said. But the fact that the = VMS-1000 DPU could be difficult to keep going in the long term =E2=80=93 = liable to become toast as you say =E2=80=93 makes me reluctant to go for = sensors that are specific to it. If my scheme works then I have pressure = sensors that might (not guaranteed, but might) work with another display = system. At least they will be industry standard and I=E2=80=99m also = going to use industry standard connectors, not the spade terminals. If the fuel flow sensor failed, then I would probably ignore it, at = least for a while. But without OP and FP displays, you have to take = action immediately. Yours, Nick From: William Rumburg=20 Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 1:13 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net=20 Subject: [LML] Re: VMS1000 pressure gauges on LNC2 Nick - The VMS-1000 was a state-of-the-art engine indication/fuel management = system back in the mid-90's and is still quite respectable. However, = it's DPU is comprised of individual electronic devices which are now = obsolete; hence, if any one of them is damaged or fails, you may as well = consider the entire DPU toast. The possiblity of damage to an individual = component is my reason for not experimenting with voltage dividers, etc. = in an attempt to make non-standard sensors work. Fortunately, sensors = are -for the most part- still available. One insurmountable problem, = however, would be replacement of the fuel flow sensor. FloScan went from = an 18K to a 6K unit and fuel flow accuracy requires that sensors "K" = factor be programmed into the DPU, which is no longer possible for the = VMS. The MediaMate's terminals are numbered 1 thru 4 and function as you've = listed; however, terminals 2 and 4 are more correctly identified as - = and + 5 VDC excitaton, with terminals 1 and 3 as + and - mV signal. I've = also failed to mention that the MediaMate's plug-on 'Hirschmann' = terminals are ill-conceived and problem-prone, especially for a mV = signal; whereas, the MSP US 300 series all have a permanent, = factory-installed connection. Bill ------=_NextPart_000_010E_01CF6617.97FB8D40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Bill,
 
I think you answered the question. The US321 may be a lot better = than the=20 original MediaMate, but it is not industry standard.
Its advantage is that its a drop in replacement, which will be what = some=20 people want. But I would prefer a solution using an industry standard=20 sensor.
 
Yours,
 
Nick
 
 
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 12:28 PM
Subject: [LML] Re: VMS1000 pressure gauges on = LNC2
 
Nick -
 
My approach was to search for a = transducer with the=20 same electrical parameters as the MediaMate, for which the VMS1000 fuel = and oil=20 pressure indications were designed (i.e. 5VDC excitation and 50mV = full-scale=20 output). Unfortunately, that turns out to be a combination rarely used = in=20 industry; however, one version of the MSP US300 series has those = parameters,=20 which makes it an exact electrical replacement. Furthermore, MSP = transducers are=20 modern, high-quality and inexpensive - in contrast with the antiquated,=20 failure-prone and outrageously overpriced MediaMate. I appreciate your efforts toward another solution, but why = not go=20 with the US321???
 
Bill Rumburg
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Nick Long=20
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 = 12:46=20 PM
Subject: [LML] Re: VMS1000 = pressure=20 gauges on LNC2
 
Hi Bill,
 
(Bill Rumburg, that is; there are two Bills in the thread)
 
I don=E2=80=99t disagree with anything you said. But the fact = that the VMS-1000=20 DPU could be difficult to keep going in the long term =E2=80=93 liable = to become toast=20 as you say =E2=80=93 makes me reluctant to go for sensors that are = specific to it. If=20 my scheme works then I have pressure sensors that might (not = guaranteed, but=20 might) work with another display system. At least they will be = industry=20 standard and I=E2=80=99m also going to use industry standard = connectors, not the spade=20 terminals.
 
If the fuel flow sensor failed, then I would probably ignore it, = at least=20 for a while. But without OP and FP displays, you have to take action=20 immediately.
 
Yours,
 
Nick
 
 
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 1:13 PM
Subject: [LML] Re: VMS1000 pressure gauges on=20 LNC2
 
Nick -
 
The VMS-1000 was a state-of-the-art = engine=20 indication/fuel management system back in the mid-90's and is still = quite=20 respectable. However, it's DPU is comprised of individual = electronic devices which are now obsolete; hence, if any = one of them=20 is damaged or fails, you may as well consider the entire DPU toast. = The=20 possiblity of damage to an individual component is my reason for not=20 experimenting with voltage dividers, etc. in an attempt to make = non-standard=20 sensors work. Fortunately, sensors are -for the most part- still = available.=20 One insurmountable problem, however, would be replacement of the fuel = flow=20 sensor. FloScan went from an 18K to a 6K unit and fuel flow accuracy = requires=20 that sensors "K" factor be programmed into the DPU, which is no longer = possible for the VMS.
The MediaMate's terminals are = numbered 1 thru 4=20 and function as you've listed; however, terminals 2 and 4 are more = correctly=20 identified as - and + 5 VDC excitaton, with terminals 1 and 3 as + and = - mV=20 signal. I've also failed to mention that the MediaMate's plug-on = 'Hirschmann'=20 terminals are ill-conceived and problem-prone, especially for a mV = signal;=20 whereas, the MSP US 300 series all have a permanent, factory-installed = connection.
 
Bill
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