X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 14:23:21 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: <2thman1@gmail.com> Received: from mail-pb0-f47.google.com ([209.85.160.47] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.7) with ESMTPS id 6570387 for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 30 Oct 2013 13:33:11 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.160.47; envelope-from=2thman1@gmail.com Received: by mail-pb0-f47.google.com with SMTP id rq2so1696546pbb.34 for ; Wed, 30 Oct 2013 10:32:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.68.135.132 with SMTP id ps4mr6130318pbb.171.1383154357315; Wed, 30 Oct 2013 10:32:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-Return-Path: <2thman1@gmail.com> Received: from [10.27.232.241] (mobile-166-147-082-132.mycingular.net. [166.147.82.132]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id gg10sm42588880pbc.46.2013.10.30.10.32.36 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 30 Oct 2013 10:32:36 -0700 (PDT) References: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-76478407-6702-4D22-95F6-519EBFD89BCA X-Original-Message-Id: <9D637564-0ABC-4722-8437-24190C9B3795@gmail.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: iPad Mail (11B511) From: John Barrett <2thman1@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [LML] engine shut down due to uncoordinated flight X-Original-Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 10:32:33 -0700 X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List --Apple-Mail-76478407-6702-4D22-95F6-519EBFD89BCA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Does fuel come out the vent in those conditions if you have the vent check v= alves? I have not noticed this but have not looked for it. I have winglets= so the vents are higher than the tanks. John Sent from my iPad > On Oct 30, 2013, at 9:11 AM, Craig Berland wrote: >=20 > Ralf, > My experience is identical to yours and I have winglets. When adding powe= r and allowing the ball to move off center, a wing will drop and you get som= e lateral force in combination that unloads the left fuel port. That is why= I always land and take off on the right tank. With Cheltons it is easy to c= heck the trip planner once in cruise and know how much fuel you will land wi= th. I plan on having a few more gallons in the right tank and land on the r= ight tank. I keep fuel balanced within 8 gallons or so and I never have to t= rim the ailerons. If a wing is low, it is always due to rudder trim. I do n= ot have a yaw damper. It is important to keep the ball centered on takeoff w= ith full fuel to prevent losing fuel out the left vent. > Craig Berland > N7VG > =20 > Dear subscribers, > I noticed a phenomena on my 4P that I thought might be worth sharing to se= e if it is unique or may be others experienced something similar: > When my ball is significantly out of center over a longer period of time (= >30 sec), my fuel selector is on left, and I have less than 15 gals in my le= ft tank my engine will quit due to fuel starvation. > It happens mainly when I am practicing approaches: on the missed go around= , when I am busy applying power, getting gears and flaps up, selecting my ne= xt way point in the GPS, changing my approach plates=E2=80=A6 if I am on the= left tank with low fuel and I forget to retrim the rudder for the changed p= ower setting my engine will shut down due to fuel starvation. My fuel indica= tor will then show zero for the left tank. Switching the tanks and applying h= igh boost brings it back to life within seconds. After 30 seconds or so I ca= n see the original amount of fuel again in the left tank. It is not a big de= al anymore because I know how to fix it but it certainly caught my full atte= ntion the first time. > In climb with full fuel I can also notice that I am loosing fuel out of th= e left vent on the wing tip if I don=E2=80=99t keep my ball in the middle. > In straight and level flight I can run this tank dry with the exact amount= of unusable fuel to which I calibrated my fuel indicator on the ground. > The only explanation that I have for this phenomena is that this uncoordin= ated flight situation must create some kind of vacuum on my wing tip around t= he vent port that sucks the fuel out towards the wing tip away from the fuse= lage. I have the regular wing tips and not the winglets. > Any input or advice is appreciated. > Ralf > =20 >=20 >=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail-76478407-6702-4D22-95F6-519EBFD89BCA Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Does fuel come out the vent in those c= onditions if you have the vent check valves?  I have not noticed this b= ut have not looked for it.  I have winglets so the vents are higher tha= n the tanks.

John

Sent from my iPad

=

On Oct 30, 2013, at 9:11 AM, Craig Berland <cberland@systems3.net> wrote:

<= /div>
=

Ralf,=

My experience is identi= cal to yours and I have winglets.  When adding power and allowing the b= all to move off center, a wing will drop and you get some lateral force in c= ombination that unloads the left fuel port.  That is why I always land and take off on the right tank. = With Cheltons it is easy to check the trip planner once in cruise and know h= ow much fuel you will land with.  I plan on having a few more gallons i= n the right tank and land on the right tank. I keep fuel balanced within 8 gallons or so and I never have to trim the ai= lerons.  If a wing is low, it is always due to rudder trim.  I do n= ot have a yaw damper.  It is important to keep the ball centered on tak= eoff with full fuel to prevent losing fuel out the left vent.

Craig Berland

N7VG<= /p>

 

Dear subscribers,

I noticed a phenomena on my 4P that I thought might b= e worth sharing to see if it is unique or may be others experienced somethin= g similar:

When my ball is significantly out of center over a lo= nger period of time (>30 sec), my fuel selector is on left, and I have le= ss than 15 gals in my left tank my engine will quit due to fuel starvation.

It happens mainly when I am practicing approaches: on= the missed go around, when I am busy applying power, getting gears and flap= s up, selecting my next way point in the GPS, changing my approach plates=E2= =80=A6 if I am on the left tank with low fuel and I forget to retrim the rudder for the changed power setting my eng= ine will shut down due to fuel starvation. My fuel indicator will then show z= ero for the left tank. Switching the tanks and applying high boost brings it= back to life within seconds. After 30 seconds or so I can see the original amount of fuel again in the l= eft tank. It is not a big deal anymore because I know how to fix it but it c= ertainly caught my full attention the first time.

In climb with full fuel I can also notice that I am l= oosing fuel out of the left vent on the wing tip if I don=E2=80=99t keep my b= all in the middle.

In straight and level flight I can run this tank dry w= ith the exact amount of unusable fuel to which I calibrated my fuel indicato= r on the ground.

The only explanation that I have for this phenomena i= s that this uncoordinated flight situation must create some kind of vacuum o= n my wing tip around the vent port that sucks the fuel out towards the wing t= ip away from the fuselage. I have the regular wing tips and not the winglets.

Any input or advice is appreciated.

Ralf

 




= --Apple-Mail-76478407-6702-4D22-95F6-519EBFD89BCA--