X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 10:39:12 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: <2thman1@gmail.com> Received: from mail-pb0-f45.google.com ([209.85.160.45] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.7) with ESMTPS id 6548935 for lml@lancaironline.net; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 09:32:47 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.160.45; envelope-from=2thman1@gmail.com Received: by mail-pb0-f45.google.com with SMTP id mc17so6997102pbc.32 for ; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 06:32:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.68.130.1 with SMTP id oa1mr17701291pbb.35.1382362331118; Mon, 21 Oct 2013 06:32:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-Return-Path: <2thman1@gmail.com> Received: from [192.168.1.121] (c-208-53-115-208.customer.broadstripe.net. [208.53.115.208]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id ve9sm21008934pbc.19.2013.10.21.06.32.10 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 21 Oct 2013 06:32:10 -0700 (PDT) References: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-4CFB810E-1AFD-4D85-83D6-2571AB4D27F8 X-Original-Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: iPad Mail (10B329) From: John Barrett <2thman1@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Hot TITs on X country leg. LIVP X-Original-Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 06:32:09 -0700 X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List --Apple-Mail-4CFB810E-1AFD-4D85-83D6-2571AB4D27F8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for the explanation. John Sent from my iPad On Oct 21, 2013, at 6:02 AM, Colyn Case wrote: > leaning makes it worse because it slows down the burn. > At the perfectly balanced mixture and two working plugs, each flame front h= as to make it halfway across the cylinder. > With one working plug the flame front has to make it all the way across th= e cylinder. > With a very rich or lean mixture the flame front moves more slowly. =20 > So you combined twice as far to go with a mixture that results in a slower= burn. >=20 > On Oct 21, 2013, at 7:36 AM, John Barrett wrote: >=20 > Time to fess up. The failure mode turned out to be a failed electronic ig= nition system. I run one Plasma III lightspeed and one mag. The lightspeed= quit and I didn't recognize it. It had to have happened during climb out o= r at level off. The run up prior to take off was entirely normal. =20 >=20 > The hot TIT's and EGT's were the result of incomplete fuel burn by the mag= that was the only ignition still running. Fuel in the exhaust stacks burn= s in the turbines and heats everything up real fast. I don't understand why= leaning made it worse though. Can anyone explain that? >=20 > Lest anyone jump on Klaus, let me be quick to admit it was not a failure o= f his system but rather an installation defect. As a matter of fact he g= ot on the phone with me on a weekend day and helped trouble shoot it. He ov= ernighted a loaner to me when I didn't have enough tools or access to do ade= quate system checks and did not laugh at me too badly when the loaner did no= t fix the problem. A check of the ground for the power circuit showed about= 2 Kohms resistance. The fix was to wire in another ground. >=20 > Best regards, > John Barrett > N31VP >=20 > Sent from my iPad >=20 >=20 > On Oct 18, 2013, at 8:50 PM, Greg Milnar wrote: >=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Hello John, >>=20 >> I am sorry that I missed out on the LOBO fly in discussion of your event.= =20 >> I have been watching the thread for the answer but I must have missed it i= f the question was answered. Please let me know what you learned. >>=20 >> I have a question about the new dimension of the rub rail material past i= ts retaining bracket on the main gear doors. I put the quire out to LML but= did not receive any responses. >>=20 >> Thanks, >>=20 >> Greg Milnar >>=20 >> 651 738 3117 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> From: John Barrett [mailto:2thman1@gmail.com]=20 >> Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 3:11 PM >> To: John Barrett >> Subject: Hot TITs on X country leg. LIVP >>=20 >> Hello all, >>=20 >>=20 >> We returned home yesterday from East Coast visits following LOBO mtg in G= reenville, SC. >>=20 >>=20 >> On the way to Greenville after an intermediate stop in NE, we experienced= an engine problem that I brought to the attention of anyone at LOBO who wou= ld listen and give advice including Neil George from TCM with Allen Barrett h= ooked into the discussion by text and cell phone. =20 >>=20 >> The short story is that when I reached my planned VFR altitude of 15,500 a= nd levelled off I pulled back power but forgot to lean or reset prop for abo= ut ten minutes. Then when I remembered and tried to lean the engine, TITs s= kyrocketed followed by hot EGT readings. See the attached link to the Savvy= analysisgraphing of the engine behavior and see if you can come up with what= went wrong. When you review the graph, you=E2=80=99ll likely notice that I= tried twice more after the initial leaning to see if I could get lean of pe= ak and the engine emphatically let me know it did NOT like what I was doing= . >>=20 >>=20 >> I can tell you the problem has been resolved and we flew the airplane aro= und the country for another week with no repeats. Now I'm interested to kno= w what LMLers might think caused this because I was totally surprised when I= learned what the real problem was. >>=20 >> Some of you who were supportive at LOBO already know the answer so let=E2= =80=99s see what others come up with. I have many people to thank for amaz= ing help in finding and correcting the problem so I want to go on record as o= ne of the most appreciative people there could be for LOBO, our many vendors= and for pilots around the airport in Greenville who gave advice, time, mate= rials, loaned tools and so on. >>=20 >>=20 >> https://www.savvyanalysis.com/flight/402058/a3f088f6-4add-464e-99c7-38fd2= 92628b1 >>=20 >> Best regards, >> John Barrett >>=20 >> N31VP=20 >>=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail-4CFB810E-1AFD-4D85-83D6-2571AB4D27F8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks for the explanation.
=
John

Sent from my iPad


On= Oct 21, 2013, at 6:02 AM, Colyn Case <colyncase@earthlink.net> wrote:

leaning makes it worse because it slows down the burn.
A= t the perfectly balanced mixture and two working plugs, each flame front has= to make it halfway across the cylinder.
With one working plug the= flame front has to make it all the way across the cylinder.
With a= very rich or lean mixture the flame front moves more slowly.   
So you combined twice as far to go with a mixture that results in a= slower burn.

On Oct 21, 2013, at 7:36 AM, John Barr= ett wrote:

= Time to fess up.  The failure mode turned out to be a failed electronic= ignition system.  I run one Plasma III lightspeed and one mag.  T= he lightspeed quit and I didn't recognize it.  It had to have happened d= uring climb out or at level off.  The run up prior to take off was enti= rely normal.  

The hot TIT's and EGT's were th= e result of incomplete fuel burn by the mag that was the only ignition still= running.   Fuel in the exhaust stacks burns in the turbines and heats e= verything up real fast.  I don't understand why leaning made it worse t= hough.  Can anyone explain that?

Lest anyone j= ump on Klaus, let me be quick to admit it was not a failure of his system bu= t rather  an installation defect.   As a matter of fact he  g= ot on the phone with me on a weekend day and helped trouble shoot it.  = He overnighted a loaner to me when I didn't have enough tools or access to d= o adequate system checks and did not laugh at me too badly when the loaner d= id not fix the problem.  A check of the ground for the power circuit sh= owed about 2 Kohms resistance.  The fix was to wire in another ground.<= /div>

Best regards,
John Barrett
N31V= P

Sent from my iPad


On Oct 18, 2013, at 8= :50 PM, Greg Milnar <greg456pw@gma= il.com> wrote:




=


Hello John,

I am sorry that I missed out on the LOBO fly in discussi= on of your event. 
I have been watching the thread f= or the answer but I must have missed it if the question was answered.  = Please let me know what you learned.

I have a question about the new dimension of the rub rail material past its= retaining bracket on the main gear doors.  I put the quire out to LML b= ut did not receive any responses.

T= hanks,

Greg Milnar

651 738 3117


From: John Barrett [mailto:2thman1@gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, O= ctober 15, 2013 3:11 PM
To: John Barrett
Subject:&n= bsp;Hot TITs on X country leg. LIVP

Hello al= l,

We return= ed home yesterday from East Coast visits following LOBO mtg in Greenville, S= C.

On the wa= y to Greenville after an intermediate stop in NE, we experienced an eng= ine problem that I brought to the attention of anyone at LOBO who w= ould listen and give advice including Neil George from TCM with Allen B= arrett hooked into the discussion by text and cell phone.  

The short story is that when I reached my planned VFR altitude of 15,500= and levelled off I pulled back power but forgot to lean or reset prop for a= bout ten minutes.  Then when I remembered and tried to lean the engine,= TITs skyrocketed followed by hot EGT readings.  See the attached link t= o the Savvyanalysisgraphing of the engine behavior and see if you can c= ome up with what went wrong.   When you review the graph, you=E2=80= =99ll likely notice that I tried twice more after the initial leaning to see= if I could get lean of peak and the engine emphatically let me know it did&= nbsp; NOT like what I was doing.

I can tell you the problem has been resolved a= nd we flew the airplane around the country for another week with no rep= eats.  Now I'm interested to know what LMLers might think caused this&n= bsp;because I was totally surprised when I learned what the real problem was= .

Some of you who were supportive at LOBO already know the an= swer so let=E2=80=99s see what others come up with.   I have many p= eople to thank for amazing help in finding and correcting the problem so I w= ant to go on record as one of the most appreciative people there could be fo= r LOBO, our many vendors and for pilots around the airport in Greenville who= gave advice, time, materials, loaned tools and so on.


=

= --Apple-Mail-4CFB810E-1AFD-4D85-83D6-2571AB4D27F8--