X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-oa0-f53.google.com ([209.85.219.53] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.5) with ESMTPS id 6350830 for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 26 Jun 2013 23:17:25 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.219.53; envelope-from=billhogarty@gmail.com Received: by mail-oa0-f53.google.com with SMTP id k14so238805oag.12 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2013 20:16:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=2dDwBwfFvjt3Dt5JEGWj0zAhopvpK7Sy0D67noa5Qyc=; b=rijc3Hj+7X1/s+vbiPzrO6UcIcc5Ad271VGRXEcvGW7no14kmllp2hAvkztMoE3RZX yeeL3NgdoQ2Kqjbn0VbFHVNsYIv8tdeSqWL6yI5ee9Ulpsx7oKNWivFD/50drM1BqQlm zjUuEpMZxHAujRSZ0LZYvTrm0aIHl32zRQl87G6MgZWJz/hzLZq7ExjagPKbInBeMJSY 8PFzLsRs0B+NgpLrwzMW7EX2eUraKh7UBFRzvVfbuCATm8PQBm0KEoGy4qFrenmzzWR1 DUhTJ5aX9ZGlgWkHkxouRTYSc4XMuqmeCiPaOTzK3ltQJb+JIAoz3NdVrpd+xtQm1EZl B+QQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.123.112 with SMTP id lz16mr1934652oeb.88.1372303009690; Wed, 26 Jun 2013 20:16:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.182.34.169 with HTTP; Wed, 26 Jun 2013 20:16:49 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 20:16:49 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Nose gear check 4P update From: "William A. Hogarty" To: Lancair Mailing List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b5d4f2e6abc3104e01a3174 --047d7b5d4f2e6abc3104e01a3174 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ralf: That's good news. Please keep me in the loop. Regards, Bill Hogarty On Sun, Jun 23, 2013 at 4:41 AM, wrote: > Bill, John,**** > > ** ** > > The air pressure inside the cowl wants to open the nose gear door.**** > > ** ** > > You need a certain momentum to keep the doors closed. It is defined by th= e > Force of the push rod (it remains the same unless we increase the diamete= r > of the nose gear cylinder) x length of the arm**** > > ** ** > > The length of the arm can be changed by moving the attachment point of th= e > push rod closer to the center of the airplane (this is what Brent Regan d= id > if you read my earlier post).**** > > ** ** > > Unfortunately we can=92t move the attachment point completely to the insi= de > because the nose gear won=92t fit in anymore.**** > > ** ** > > I hope I get to check it out on the weekend. I will make new brackets > then. It will be a bent laser cut aluminum part that can be reproduced at > almost no cost. If I find a sound solution I let you know and I can make > the brackets for you.**** > > ** ** > > Ralf**** > > ** ** > > *From:* John Barrett [mailto:2thman1@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Friday, June 21, 2013 10:15 AM > *To:* lml@lancaironline.net > *Subject:* Re: [LML] Re: Nose gear check 4P update**** > > ** ** > > Hi Bill,**** > > ** ** > > I do vaguely recall that the brackets are either too small or in the wron= g > part of the door (per the manual) to get the proper mechanical advantage. > I am thinking Brent Regan came up with the discovery and the advice for > fixing. It's been a long time, but I think I either made new brackets or > put them in a different place or both. I could send photos and dimension= s > if you'd like. My doors seem to function well although no one has flown > formation with me to observe how they close in flight.**** > > ** ** > > Let me know,**** > > ** ** > > John > > Sent from my iPad**** > > ** ** > > > On Jun 19, 2013, at 9:03 PM, "William A. Hogarty" > wrote:**** > > Hello John:**** > > **** > > Yes, I think that we are talking about the same item**** > > **** > > Each nose gear door is actuated by linkage (rods) that attach to the door > using a small "L" shaped aluminum bracket.**** > > **** > > It seem that if the bracket were a little larger, the pivot point (where > the rod attaches) could be moved and thus apply a little more pressure t= o > hold the doors closed in flight..**** > > **** > > Any thoughts???? Bill H.**** > > **** > > **** > > ** ** > > On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 12:29 AM, John Barrett <2thman1@gmail.com> wrote:= * > *** > > Hi again Bill,**** > > ** ** > > Is the bracket you are referring to the horn that the push rod is attache= d > to? **** > > ** ** > > I'm not quite sure what the bracket is.**** > > ** ** > > John > > Sent from my iPad**** > > ** ** > > > On Jun 18, 2013, at 7:09 PM, "William A. Hogarty" > wrote:**** > > Hello John:**** > > **** > > I bought two replacement aluminum doors from Lancair; primarily because > aluminum hinges are still in the plane and they have always worked well. > Dropping the doors was a simple matter of pulling the hinge pins.**** > > **** > > I am interested in enlarging the brackets that activate the doors because > both of the connecting rods ended up having a slight curve after about 18= 0 > hours so there is considerable pressure on those rods. In addition, the > right door bracket had a noticeable bend in it that I would like to > resolve. If you have any specs on your brackets, I sure would like to se= e > them**** > > ** ** > > On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 9:32 AM, John Barrett <2thman1@gmail.com> wrote:*= * > ** > > Hello Bill. **** > > ** ** > > i made my nose gear doors out of graphite on my LIVP and used Carbinge to > hinge them. Have about 70 hours on the plane now with no glitches. Very > happy with the results. Can share design parameters if you are intereste= d. > **** > > ** ** > > I also made graphite angle bar to hang them, but that might be overkill > with your engine already being mounted.**** > > ** ** > > Best,**** > > John Barrett**** > > N31VP > > Sent from my iPad**** > > ** ** > > > On Jun 18, 2013, at 8:46 AM, "William A. Hogarty" > wrote:**** > > Ralf:**** > > **** > > I am making up a new set of nose gear doors (don't ask).. **** > > **** > > If you fabricate a new door bracket, please let me know the how and what. > And how they work. (maybe Brent has a pattern???**** > > **** > > Appreciate the help.**** > > **** > > Regards**** > > **** > > Bill Hogarty**** > > **** > > ** ** > > On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 4:45 AM, Chris Zavatson > wrote:**** > > Ralf,**** > > The Outback gear doors on the 320/360 suffered a similar fate. The > original actuation scheme couldn't handle the air loads. A small pressur= e > differential over a large area generates a lot of force.**** > > Chris**** > > **** > > Chris Zavatson**** > > N91CZ**** > > 360std**** > > www.N91CZ.net**** > > ** ** > > *From:* "bronnenmeier@GROBSYSTEMS.COM" > *To:* lml@lancaironline.net > *Sent:* Monday, June 17, 2013 11:08 AM > *Subject:* [LML] Nose gear check 4P update**** > > > Dear subscribers, > > I did the nose gear check as described Jack Morgan and Charlie Kohler > earlier. Everything went very smooth and the plane did not move at all > even when the weight on the tail and chucks were removed. > > I cycled the gear 5 times and every time the nose gear door shut > perfect. This leads to the conclusion that my door shuts perfect after > take-off and reopens due to air-pressure like Brent Regan describes > below. > > On the in-flight picture you can see how the door gets pushed open. This > was at a pretty low speed - approx. 140...150 kts indicated - I assume > it will get worse if I go faster. > > I attached pics of my nose gear linkage versus Brent Regan's improved > nose gear linkage - if yours looks more like mine you probably have the > same problem. > > Since there was so much concern about my jacks I attached a pic of the > gear check. My jacks work reliable and the plane sits sound on them. > They just don't have enough stroke. That's why I have little platforms > that I slide in and out. The set up works reliable - it is just a little > more work.... > > Ralf > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brent Regan [mailto:brent@regandesigns.com] > Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 11:37 AM > To: Lancair Mailing List > Subject: Re: Nose gear check 4P > > Ralf writes: > "A friend took a picture of the belly of my airplane in flight with the > gear up. It looked to me that the nose gear door was not completely > closed." > > The original factory nose gear door linkage geometry provided too low a > mechanical advantage to keep the doors closed against the internal > cowling air pressure during flight. On the door bracket, you need to > fabricate a new part with the link ball hole rotated about the hinge > centerline towards the AC center. This will give a larger effective > moment arm when the doors are closed. A slight kink in the linkage arms > is required. See pictures attached. > > BTW, Selecting Gear Up while on the wheels is an incredibly bad idea. > Buy a decent pair of jacks NOW. Also, do NOT strap the spinner to lift > the nose. Remove the top cowl and strap the propshaft. > > Regards > Bren Regan > -- > For archives and unsub > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html > > **** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > > -- > For archives and unsub > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html > > --047d7b5d4f2e6abc3104e01a3174 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ralf:
=A0
That's good news.= =A0 Please keep me in the loop.
=A0
Regards, Bill Hogar= ty


On Sun, Jun 23, 2013 at 4:41 AM, <bronnenmeier@grobsystems.co= m> wrote:

Bill, Jo= hn,

=A0

The air pres= sure inside the cowl wants to open the nose gear door.=

=A0

You need a c= ertain momentum to keep the doors closed. It is defined by the Force of the= push rod (it remains the same unless we increase the diameter of the nose = gear cylinder) x length of the arm

=A0

The length o= f the arm can be changed by moving the attachment point of the push rod clo= ser to the center of the airplane (this is what Brent Regan did if you read= my earlier post).

=A0

Unfortunatel= y we can=92t move the attachment point completely to the inside because the= nose gear won=92t fit in anymore.

=A0

I hope I get= to check it out on the weekend. I will make new brackets then. It will be = a bent laser cut aluminum part that can be reproduced at almost no cost. If= I find a sound solution I let you know and I can make the brackets for you= .

=A0

Ralf<= u>

=A0

From: John Barrett= [mailto:2thman1@gma= il.com]
Sent: Friday, June 21, 2013 10:15 AM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
S= ubject: Re: [LML] Re: Nose gear check 4P update

=A0

Hi Bill,

=A0

I do vaguely recall that t= he brackets are either too small or in the wrong part of the door (per the = manual) to get the proper mechanical advantage. =A0I am thinking Brent Rega= n came up with the discovery and the advice for fixing. =A0It's been a = long time, but I think I either made new brackets or put them in a differen= t place or both. =A0I could send photos and dimensions if you'd like. = =A0My doors seem to function well although no one has flown formation with = me to observe how they close in flight.

=A0

Let me know,

=A0

John

Sent= from my iPad

=A0


On Jun 19, 2013, at 9:03 PM= , "William A. Hogarty" <billhogarty@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello John:

=A0

Yes, I t= hink that we are talking about the same item

=A0

Each nose gear door is actuated by linkage (rods) that attac= h to=A0the door using a small "L" shaped aluminum=A0bracket.

=A0

It seem that if the bracket were a little larger, the pivot = point=A0(where the rod attaches)=A0could be moved and thus apply=A0 a littl= e more pressure to hold the doors closed in flight..

=A0

Any thoughts????=A0 Bill H.

=A0

= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0

=A0

On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 12:29 AM= , John Barrett <2= thman1@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi again Bill,

=A0

Is the bracket you are referring to the horn that the push rod is attac= hed to? =A0

=A0

I'm not quite sure what the bracket is.

=A0

John

Sent from my iPad

= =A0


On Jun 18, 2013, at 7:09 PM, "William A. = Hogarty" <billhogarty@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello John:

=A0

I bought= two replacement aluminum doors from Lancair;=A0 primarily because aluminum= hinges are still in the plane and they have always worked well.=A0 Droppin= g the doors was a simple matter of pulling the hinge pins.

=A0

I am interested in enlarging the brackets that activate the = doors because both of the connecting rods ended up having a slight curve af= ter about 180 hours so there is considerable pressure on those rods.=A0 In = addition, the right door bracket had a noticeable bend in it that I would l= ike to resolve.=A0 If you have any specs on your brackets, I sure would lik= e to see them

=A0

On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 9:32 AM,= John Barrett <2t= hman1@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello Bill. =A0

=A0

i made my nose gear doors out of graphite on my LIVP and used Carbinge= to hinge them. =A0Have about 70 hours on the plane now with no glitches. = =A0Very happy with the results. =A0Can share design parameters if you are i= nterested. =A0

=A0

I also made graphite angle bar to hang them, but that might = be overkill with your engine already being mounted.

=

=A0

Best,

John Barrett=

N31VP

Sent from my = iPad

=A0


On Jun 18, 2013, a= t 8:46 AM, "William A. Hogarty" <billhogarty@gmail.com> wrote:

Ralf:

=A0

I am making up= a new set of nose gear doors (don't ask)..

=A0

If you fabricate a new door bracket, please let me know the = how and what.=A0 And how they work. (maybe Brent has a pattern???=

=A0

Appreciate the help.

=A0

Regards<= u>

=A0

Bill Hogarty

=A0

=A0

On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 4:= 45 AM, Chris Zavatson <chris_zavatson@yahoo.com> wrote:

=

Ralf,

The Outback gear doors on the 320/360 suffered a similar fate.=A0=A0 T= he original actuation scheme couldn't handle the air loads.=A0 A small = pressure differential over a large area generates a lot of force.=

Chris

=A0

Chris Zavatson

N91CZ

360std

=A0

From: "bronnenmeier@GROBSYSTEMS.COM" <bronnenmeie= r@GROBSYSTEMS.COM>
To: lml@l= ancaironline.net
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 11:08 AM
= Subject: [LML] Nose gear check 4P update


Dear subscribe= rs,

I did the nose gear check as described Jack Morgan and Charlie K= ohler
earlier. Everything went very smooth and the plane did not move at= all
even when the weight on the tail and chucks were removed.

I cycled t= he gear 5 times and every time the nose gear door shut
perfect. This lea= ds to the conclusion that my door shuts perfect after
take-off and reope= ns due to air-pressure like Brent Regan describes
below.

On the in-flight picture you can see how the door gets pushed= open. This
was at a pretty low speed - approx.=A0 140...150 kts indicat= ed - I assume
it will get worse if I go faster.

I attached pics o= f my nose gear linkage versus Brent Regan's improved
nose gear linkage - if yours looks more like mine you probably have the
= same problem.

Since there was so much concern about my jacks I attac= hed a pic of the
gear check. My jacks work reliable and the plane sits s= ound on them.
They just don't have enough stroke. That's why I have little platfo= rms
that I slide in and out. The set up works reliable - it is just a li= ttle
more work....

Ralf



-----Original Message----= -
From: Brent Regan [mailto:brent@regandesigns.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 = 11:37 AM
To: Lancair Mailing List
Subject: Re: Nose gear check 4P
=
Ralf writes:
"A friend took a picture of the belly of my airplane i= n flight with the
gear up. It looked to me that the nose gear door was n= ot completely
closed."

The original factory nose gear door l= inkage geometry provided too low a
mechanical advantage to keep the doors closed against the internal
cowli= ng air pressure during flight. On the door bracket, you need to
fabricat= e a new part with the link ball hole rotated about the hinge
centerline = towards the AC center. This will give a larger effective
moment arm when the doors are closed. A slight kink in the linkage arms
= is required. See pictures attached.

BTW, Selecting Gear Up while on = the wheels is an incredibly bad idea.
Buy a decent pair of jacks NOW. A= lso, do NOT strap the spinner to lift
the nose. Remove the top cowl and strap the propshaft.

Regards
Br= en Regan
--
For archiv= es and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html

= =A0

=A0

=A0


--
For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/L= ist.html


--047d7b5d4f2e6abc3104e01a3174--