X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 08:20:01 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from bay0-omc3-s8.bay0.hotmail.com ([65.54.190.146] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.5) with ESMTP id 6297198 for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 29 May 2013 22:25:25 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=65.54.190.146; envelope-from=peterpawaviation@hotmail.com Received: from BAY152-W23 ([65.54.190.188]) by bay0-omc3-s8.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Wed, 29 May 2013 19:24:51 -0700 X-TMN: [r0BBRFfPkL8T/tvcZgwzt4vOWXfgWeL8] X-Originating-Email: [peterpawaviation@hotmail.com] X-Original-Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: peterpawaviation@hotmail.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_d47b4267-5398-4bd8-b9c1-4976812ebc82_" From: PETER WILLIAMS X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List Subject: RE: [LML] Re: Lancair Aerobatics X-Original-Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 22:24:50 -0400 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 May 2013 02:24:51.0516 (UTC) FILETIME=[DD44D7C0:01CE5CDC] --_d47b4267-5398-4bd8-b9c1-4976812ebc82_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hi there Boeing built several LNC4=2C but they enlarged the horizontal surface and r= edesigned the airfoil maybe they have some expertise in aircraft design Installed=0A= an AOA in my 4P and still learning it. Installed VG on the 4P and had a=0A= 7-8 knot reduction in stall speed=3B highly recommend it to everyone. =0A= rediculoudly cheap. $289.00 with a template and shipping.=20 peter To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Wed=2C 29 May 2013 12:29:35 -0400 From: cwfmd@yahoo.com Subject: [LML] Re: Lancair Aerobatics Does anyone expect my mention of 'How about watching your AOAs! to avoid st= all-departures (and subsequent) spins. ?? Good Point Terrence=2C I accidentally left that out=2C focusing on the SD i= nstead... I don't like to fly a Lancair unless it has AOA installed. But I'm an old = Navy test Pilot. Good comments both about AOA awareness(orientation?) and c= ontrol authority. I suspect the IV-P reduced control authority=2C to paraph= rase Bert=2C in the tail=2C "there is not enough" surface. We have an integrated systems project in our university course=2C specula= ting on how we could "fix" the IV-P. Suppose you had a fly by wire control = interface. Could the mishap scenarios be over come by limiting certain cont= rol inputs? For example commanding too much angle of attack might limit bac= k stick range or even add power and=0A= optimal climb if low altitude? What if instant antispin control override kicks in=2C like the stick pushe= r in the F-104 or the Eclipse? What might the tradeoff be in aerodynamic im= provements vs fly by wire? The problem is flight testing=2C because the fle= et is not large enough to support this development and testing. We used to attack the identified problem=2C such as the F-14 flat spin(se= e TopGun movie) or the SD issue in the F-16 "lawn dart" =2C as follows: 1. Identify the problem=2C=20 2. educate the pilots=2C=20 3. modify the training (I bagged lots of T-2 flt time=2C as a SPin/OutaCont= rol flt instructor)=2C=20 4. modify the software or display/control etc=2C but only lastly =2C 5.modify the hardware changing the airframe. These are=2C in sequence of expenses=2C which increase(exponentially)=2C w= ith each level. With the Lancair=2C we are always in the first 2 or 3 leve= ls=2C because of funding=2C it is hard to reach=0A= farther. The greatest challenge is to reach those new Lancair enthusiasts= =2C who have not yet been introduced to 1=2C 2 =2C & 3 ! = --_d47b4267-5398-4bd8-b9c1-4976812ebc82_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
hi there
Boeing built several LNC4=2C but they enla= rged the horizontal su= rface and redesigned the airfoil
 =3B  =3B =3B =3B  = =3B  =3B  =3Bmaybe they have some expertise in aircraft design
Installed=0A= an AOA in my 4P and still learning it. Installed VG on the 4P and had a=0A= 7-8 knot reduction in stall speed=3B highly recommend it to everyone. =0A= rediculoudly cheap. $2= 89.00 with a template and shipping.

peter

To: lml@lancaironline.net
Date: Wed=2C 29 May 2013 12:29:35 -= 0400
From: cwfmd@yahoo.com
Subject: [LML] Re: Lancair Aerobatics
<= br>
Does anyone expect my mention of =3B'How about watching your AOAs! to avoid stall-departures (and sub= sequent) spins. ??

Good Point Terrence=2C I accidentall= y left that out=2C focusing on the SD instead...
 =3BI don't like to= fly a Lancair unless it has AOA installed. But I'm an old Nav= y test Pilot. Good comments both about AOA awareness(orientation?) and cont= rol authority. I suspect the IV-P reduced control authority=2C to paraphras= e Bert=2C in the tail=2C "there is not enough" surface.
 =3B We have= an integrated systems project in our university course=2C speculating on h= ow we could "fix" the IV-P. Suppose you had a fly by wire control interface= . Could the mishap scenarios be over come by limiting certain control input= s? For example commanding too much angle of attack might limit back stick r= ange or even add power and=0A= optimal climb if low altitude?
 =3BWhat if instant antispin control= override kicks in=2C like the stick pusher in the F-104 or the Eclipse? Wh= at might the tradeoff be in aerodynamic improvements vs fly by wire? The pr= oblem is flight testing=2C because the fleet is not large enough to support= this development and testing.
 =3B We used to attack the identified= problem=2C such as the F-14 flat spin(see TopGun movie) or the SD issue in= the F-16 "lawn dart" =2C as follows:
1. Identify the problem=2C
2. = educate the pilots=2C
3. modify the training (I bagged lots of T-2 flt = time=2C as a SPin/OutaControl flt instructor)=2C
4. modify the software= or display/control etc=2C =3B =3B but only lastly =2C
5.modify = the hardware changing the airframe.
 =3BThese are=2C in sequence of = expenses=2C which increase(exponentially)=2C with each level. =3B With = the Lancair=2C we are always in the first 2 or 3 levels=2C because of fundi= ng=2C it is hard to reach=0A= farther. =3B The greatest challenge is to reach those new Lancair enth= usiasts=2C who have not yet been introduced to 1=2C 2 =2C &=3B 3 =3B= !
= --_d47b4267-5398-4bd8-b9c1-4976812ebc82_--