Mailing List lml@lancaironline.net Message #65125
From: Bill Wade <super_chipmunk@roadrunner.com>
Sender: <marv@lancaironline.net>
Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Hydraulic gear pump failure - Relays
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2013 10:15:17 -0400
To: <lml@lancaironline.net>
Thanks Scott-
                      That’s a good point that I had forgotten about. Another method is to use Metal Oxide Varistors- something Bob Nuckolls (AeroElectric Connection) used to recommend. They absorb spikes and are bidirectional so there’s no worry about polarity.
 
  I used Panasonic ERZV20D180’s on the 14V Navion relays when I got a 337 for a dual battery system. That was okayed by an aircraft designer/ DAR so I have some confidence in the choice. There has been no problem with the system during six years of use.
 
I just ordered ERZV20D390’s for the 28V Lancair relays- they’re comparable in performance to the others but higher operating voltage. Panasonic is apparently discontinuing the series so if anyone is interested they might want to buy soon. Others are available but I didn’t find such high capacity in a quick search. Mouser Electronics has them at reasonable prices. –Bill Wade
 
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2013 2:12 PM
Subject: [LML] Re: Hydraulic gear pump failure - Relays
 
Bill, et al,
 
Relays should have a diode reverse connected across the coil to stop the voltage surge generated by the field collapse when power is removed from the coil.  This will help protect the pressure switch contacts.
 
Grayhawk
 
In a message dated 3/28/2013 12:58:55 P.M. Central Daylight Time, super_chipmunk@roadrunner.com writes:
  Would there be any drawback to using a higher- rated contactor? I found the Lancair part to be a P.O.S.- it was marked continuous duty but when put on a power supply it rapidly overheated and shorted to the case.
 
Instead I’m using an antique 50A Leach B-5B aircraft style that easily operated for hours. The pump supplied with my IV-P draws a maximum of 50A, so the Leach might be marginal but I think I’ll try it initially.
 
On Colin’s recommendation I also purchased a TYCO LEV100A5ANH , rated 100A that I could use instead, or elsewhere. The Leach draws 0.16A, the TYCO draws 0.25A at 28V. The Lancair- supplied Suco pressure switch is rated for 4A as best I can determine so either unit should be compatible.
 
  I don’t know what other models might use but consider the contacts inside the pressure switches. If they should get overloaded and weld closed the effect would be the same as welding the relay points.  -Bill Wade
 
From: Gary Casey
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2013 9:36 AM
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam][LML] Re: Hydraulic gear pump failure - Relays
 
Pardon me if I'm jumping into a discussion a little late (and a dollar short), but there might be some confusion on how and why relays are designed for intermittent duty.  As an example, take a standard master relay.  It is rated for continuous duty and something like 80 amps.  That means the coil won't overheat if left on forever and that the contacts also won't overheat when passing 80 amps and that the contacts won't weld when interrupting 80 amps.  It is often the limitations when opening the circuit that determines the rating.  Current will try to keep flowing and if the contacts don't separate rapidly and with enough force the inevitable arc could create enough heat to weld the contacts and prevent opening.  If it is desired to design a relay in the same package (for cost, size and weight reasons) that can be used intermittently to pass a much higher current the design parameters are different.  More force is required to increase the rate at which the contacts are opened so a higher force spring is installed.  Then more force is required to close the contacts, so fewer turns of heavier wire are used in the coil (that's right, FEWER turns, but that's another discussion).  The result is that the relay can now successfully switch maybe 300 amps, but the coil will overheat after a few minutes of operation.  That's the difference between a master and a starter relay.  And I have never, ever heard of using a relay as the "weak link" in the system.
Gary
ps:  My Lancair list emails now come all messed up (see below).  Why is that?  Am I doing something wrong?
 
The only caveat with that fix, Fred, is that intermittent relays are ther=
e
for a purpose.  They are supposed to be the weak link in a circuit where =
a
continuous stuck relay could result in greater problems than a failure.=20
Does that protective function matter in this circuit?=0D
Should be  considered.=0D
John=0D
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