X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2012 08:39:59 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from nm24.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com ([98.139.91.94] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0c1) with SMTP id 5797613 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sun, 07 Oct 2012 20:00:04 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.139.91.94; envelope-from=n20087@yahoo.com Received: from [98.139.91.67] by nm24.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Oct 2012 23:59:30 -0000 Received: from [98.139.91.30] by tm7.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Oct 2012 23:59:30 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1030.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Oct 2012 23:59:30 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 654816.37906.bm@omp1030.mail.sp2.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 60091 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2012 23:59:30 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=DKIM-Signature:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:Received:References:In-Reply-To:Mime-Version:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:Message-Id:Cc:X-Mailer:From:Subject:Date:To; b=k6c3dF8W/QtUd/K0kmKTgIXyGuw7tsAhQJdEyZcPMniiq4RDn1x4Y+m8YOJANPPTbH6QtZeCdLGzmw6rXM/+MBsiScMUhiNApJxHYQGuqCHrqYyJA5a5/0VOLaxFjRrENIdkVyBG6b6eJhzLgYTrM6VcrXhwjH0L6OTpNAKUC0s= ; X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: DksyCNUVM1mNYMfG7iRhPhG3CosZzQP4lJzP041laJGMUvg kelHKKHR2LqiFPmAEP.8ONXicPefLSxpKbY9_aPezAnkfDcimD6qUyepYeue n_chhx4wDgRSbMjEXgtJDEoz2QEPqAEuAEd39hoKV.eg9v0sBXCoX3rmv8aQ rGcrCkxq6qP2vw83qWA9NdLuS9AxtPHnlh03rh3fz.ilSZcFLQ62F9Eg7hgT QmDIKb52KDAe1i0RpgRRC_.kVqJJ5VBW9XomiZ4hNoIcUQuGGen4UXu6nWZq vz8EcuYKZG3_0cpzRRJbwITv5Fo7YTOirKrxKbjhFK64bD.OHsJJJLMAaI_8 oX8XkpRvY7MGYfIi2MlWNU7kPYiL1AcfRE9QgjHinqvuCRFXcu1uhFxShzhU ONbXAl_PyEDTW0vsbrQTku6hh2e2TLiHEn_.cmRXGTrdJKiy7OhtbJVmKQli AFz74j9LkE8zihi8OxHzfiU8hEocYvPWsTRbXgCZVyMP5VRZs66BUQw-- X-Yahoo-SMTP: NQQt3c2swBAKSrExoA1eZuT7_w-- Received: from [192.168.1.102] (n20087@98.185.58.254 with xymcookie) by smtp115-mob.biz.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 07 Oct 2012 16:59:30 -0700 PDT References: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-2F59F0FD-7EEA-45C0-B33B-4F712AD2C8E0 X-Original-Message-Id: X-Original-Cc: "n5276j@aol.com" X-Mailer: iPad Mail (9B176) From: N20087 Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Piston oil cooling jets X-Original-Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2012 19:59:29 -0400 X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List --Apple-Mail-2F59F0FD-7EEA-45C0-B33B-4F712AD2C8E0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Steve=20 Thanks for your input. How did you get a good contoured finish on the inlet= s? Did you make fibre glass rings and then bond them into the larger holes a= nd finish with micro? I was thinking of putting in Will James cowl rings whi= ch give a nice aluminum finish and a 4inch I'd Yes I am all too aware of lycomings recommendations regarding CHTs .... I am= living proof of it :( I have already sent my cylinders to eci for rework. The cerminil cylinders a= re a bitch to hone in the field=20 Thanks=20 Tom Sent from my iPad On Oct 7, 2012, at 6:15 PM, steve wrote: > Tom, > =20 > I have a 360 straight valve with 10:1 pistons,fuel injected with a slightl= y bigger oil cooler then normal. I increased my inlet air to four inches and= a stock RV baffling system sealed tight.My exit air is 3"x 17. If not caref= ul (too lean) on hot days I can go over 400 on takeoff/climb out on a hot da= y. However if I level off/ reduce power/rpm I can stop the CHTS from going o= ver 400, Once cooled down (stabilized) from the takeoff I can resume full p= ower/climb and manage the temps just fine. I never run my engine over 400 ch= ts. > =20 > I recently ran a race in Pogosa Springs Co. it was 150 miles. I ran wide o= pen and 2650rpms, I controlled the chts with fuel and never went over 390. T= he oil peaked at 210, I averaged 254 mph. I do not have ney nossils nor a Pl= enum just a tight stock RV baffling system. I expect lower CHTS once I build= a nose gear door for the bottom cowl opening that has to be upsetting the e= xit air from the strut opening. I also see a plenum in the future as I clean= -up cooling drag that might allow me to close down inlet and exit air. But f= or now My cooling is fine > =20 > Lycon warns not to go over 400 for break-in. Doing so puts you at great ri= sk of glazing the cylinders and annealing the rings, which will cause blow-b= y, burning oil. Thus causing the cylinders to run hotter. This is what I wou= ld suspect is your results. > =20 > Splitting the case and installing Ney nossils is not the answer in my opio= n. If your baffling system is correctly done with 4" inlets and adequate exi= t air you should not have a problem, just control the heat on climb out,if y= ou install ney nossils it may help but its the wrong band-aid at a high pric= e. > =20 > It sounds to me that you will need to re-ring and hone the cylinders and t= ry the break-in again. Fall is here and cooler outside temps will aid in the= break-in just remember do not go over 400 on the break-in. > =20 > =20 > =20 > steve alderman 25SA 360 >=20 >=20 >=20 > =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: N20087 > To: lml > Sent: Sun, Oct 7, 2012 10:34 am > Subject: [LML] Piston oil cooling jets >=20 > > Folks >=20 > This is addressed to the hard core engine experts on the forum. I would l= ove=20 > your feedback on this=20 >=20 > I am considering having my io360 crankcase modified so that I can install p= iston=20 > cooling jets which are standard in 200hp engines. The reason being, I hav= e had=20 > to take aircraft out of service twice, once at 80 hrs and now at 160 due t= o=20 > lousy break-in and high CHTs. I have done all the obvious stuff such as pl= enum,=20 > timing, plugs, flowed the fuel servo to the rich side, baffles etc.. I am=20= > running 9:1 eci cerminil cylinders and they will hit 430 on climb out. Th= ey=20 > went to 450 twice in the initial break-in. They will run 370 in 75% cruise= and=20 > 340 lop >=20 > All this aside, the pistons at 80 hrs (both times) were coated in dark var= nish=20 > under the crown and the top of the crowns were heavily carbonized from oil= =20 > blowback >=20 > I am just getting tired of it and don't want to pul the engine apart again= =20 > anytime soon after this downturn >=20 > So,,,I am wondering if anybody has any experience or data concerning the c= ooling=20 > benefits of the piston oil nozzles. Ie is it 5 degrees or 20+ >=20 > Also, I am debating whether to split the crankcase myself or take the clos= ed=20 > case (jugs and every accessory removed) with con rods still attached to th= e=20 > local shop and have them split the case, do the machining and reassemble. = The=20 > shop is very very reputable but of course the cost will be higher if I get= them=20 > to do the breakdown and reassembly=20 >=20 > As another cooling remediation measure I was thinking of opening up the co= wl=20 > inlets to 4 inches but a little reluctant due to the increased drag and li= mited=20 > benefit. I added an electric cowl flap by the way and achieved only a 2 d= egree=20 > CHT improvement in climb at 130 knots Go figure! >=20 > Again, any feedback on my plan here would appreciated=20 >=20 > Thanks in advance=20 >=20 > Tom=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > -- > For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.htm= l --Apple-Mail-2F59F0FD-7EEA-45C0-B33B-4F712AD2C8E0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Steve 

=
Thanks for your input.  How did you get a good contoured fin= ish on the inlets?  Did you make fibre glass rings and then bond them i= nto the larger holes and finish with micro? I was thinking of putting in Wil= l James cowl rings which give a nice aluminum finish and a 4inch I'd

Yes I am all too aware of lycomings recommendations regard= ing CHTs .... I am living proof of it :(

I have alr= eady
= T= hanks 

Tom

Se= nt from my iPad

On Oct 7, 2012, at 6:15 PM, steve <n5276j@aol.com> wrote:

Tom,
 
I have a 360 straight valve with 10:1 pistons,fuel injected with a slig= htly bigger oil cooler then normal. I increased my inlet air to four inches&= nbsp;and a stock RV baffling system sealed tight.My exit air is 3"x 17.=  If not careful (too lean) on hot days I can go over 400 on takeof= f/climb out on a hot day. However if I level off/ reduce power/rpm = ; I can stop the CHTS from going over 400, Once  cooled down (stabilize= d) from the takeoff I can resume full power/climb and manage the temps j= ust fine. I never run my engine over 400 chts.
 
 I recently ran a race in Pogosa Springs Co. it was 150 miles. I r= an wide open and 2650rpms, I controlled the chts with fuel and never went ov= er 390. The oil peaked at 210, I averaged 254 mph. I do not have ney nossils= nor a Plenum just a tight stock RV baffling system. I expect lowe= r CHTS once I build a nose gear door for the bottom cowl opening that has to= be upsetting the exit air from the strut opening. I also see a plenum in th= e future as I clean-up cooling drag that might allow me to close down i= nlet and exit air. But for now My cooling is fine
 
Lycon warns not to go over 400 for break-in. Doing so puts you at great= risk of glazing the cylinders and annealing the rings, which will caus= e blow-by, burning oil. Thus causing the cylinders to run hotter. This is wh= at I would suspect is your results.
 
Splitting the case and installing Ney nossils is not the answer in my o= pion. If your baffling system is correctly done with 4" inlets and adequate e= xit air you should not have a problem, just control the heat on climb out,if= you install ney nossils it may help but its the wrong band-aid at a hi= gh price.
 
It sounds to me that you will need to re-ring and hone the cylinders an= d try the break-in again. Fall is here and cooler outside temps will aid in t= he break-in just remember do not go over 400 on the break-in.
 
 
 
steve alderman   25SA   360



 
-= ----Original Message-----
From: N20087 <n20087@yahoo.com>= ;
To: lml <lml@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sun, Oct 7, 2012 10:34 am
Subject: [LML] Piston oil cooling jets

> Fo=
lks

This is addressed to the hard core engine experts on the forum.  I would lov=
e=20
your feedback on this=20

I am considering having my io360 crankcase modified so that I can install pi=
ston=20
cooling jets which are standard in 200hp engines.  The reason being, I have h=
ad=20
to take aircraft out of service twice, once at 80 hrs and now at 160 due to=20=

lousy break-in and high CHTs. I have done all the obvious stuff such as plen=
um,=20
timing, plugs, flowed the fuel servo to the rich side, baffles etc.. I am=20=

running 9:1 eci cerminil cylinders and they will hit 430 on climb out.  They=
=20
went to 450 twice in the initial break-in. They will run 370 in 75% cruise a=
nd=20
340 lop

All this aside, the pistons at 80 hrs (both times) were coated in dark varni=
sh=20
under the crown and the top of the crowns were heavily carbonized from oil=20=

blowback

I am just getting tired of it and don't want to pul the engine apart again=20=

anytime soon after this downturn

So,,,I am wondering if anybody has any experience or data concerning the coo=
ling=20
benefits of the piston oil nozzles.  Ie is it 5 degrees or 20+

Also, I am debating whether to split the crankcase myself or take the closed=
=20
case (jugs and every accessory removed) with con rods still attached to the=20=

local shop and have them split the case, do the machining and reassemble.  T=
he=20
shop is very very reputable but of course the cost will be higher if I get t=
hem=20
to do the breakdown and reassembly=20

As another cooling remediation measure I was thinking of opening up the cowl=
=20
inlets to 4 inches but a little reluctant due to the increased drag and limi=
ted=20
benefit.  I added an electric cowl flap by the way and achieved only a 2 deg=
ree=20
CHT improvement in climb at 130 knots Go figure!

Again, any feedback on my plan here would appreciated=20

Thanks in advance=20

Tom=20



--
For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/Lis=
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