X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 11:00:37 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from mail.grobsystems.com ([74.218.59.19] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.4) with ESMTP id 5486664 for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 18 Apr 2012 07:57:08 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=74.218.59.19; envelope-from=btv1==45574106613==bronnenmeier@grobsystems.com X-ASG-Debug-ID: 1334750163-76406d6d0002-yPXFKn Received: from bluexch01.grob.local ([10.10.0.103]) by mail.grobsystems.com with ESMTP id GcbaGstBt9QevFBL; Wed, 18 Apr 2012 07:56:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Barracuda-Envelope-From: bronnenmeier@GROBSYSTEMS.COM X-ASG-Whitelist: Client X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CD1D5A.3FB60116" Subject: RE: [LML] Re: TSIO 550 Hot #2 cylinder X-Original-Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 07:56:11 -0400 X-ASG-Orig-Subj: RE: [LML] Re: TSIO 550 Hot #2 cylinder X-Original-Message-ID: <03E004EAF5B4DC4186EDF0995C9FE57102F98EA6@bluexch01.grob.local> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [LML] Re: TSIO 550 Hot #2 cylinder Thread-Index: Ac0dWL/cV3VyejeZRj+Gx6X1FXkgkw== From: X-Original-To: , X-Barracuda-Connect: UNKNOWN[10.10.0.103] X-Barracuda-Start-Time: 1334750187 X-Barracuda-URL: http://74.218.59.19:80/cgi-mod/mark.cgi X-Virus-Scanned: by bsmtpd at grobsystems.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01CD1D5A.3FB60116 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Colyn, I have the air guides underneath - it's may be worth checking if #4 = closes as tight as the other ones. It will take a little bit to give you more data. I need to take another = flight for this and I just took everything apart yesterday for the = annual.=20 As soon as I am ready to go again I get you the data. Thanks=20 Ralf =20 From: Colyn Case [mailto:colyncase@earthlink.net]=20 Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 4:55 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [LML] Re: TSIO 550 Hot #2 cylinder =20 Ralf, =20 what is the fuel flow in each of these scenarios? as you lean, when does #4 peak relative to other cylinders and what FF? do you have air guides underneath the cylinders to keep the cooling air = going through the fins all the way to the bottom of the cylinder? =20 Colyn =20 On Apr 17, 2012, at 9:52 AM, = wrote: Dear subscribers, =20 Since we are talking about hot cylinders I got one question that bothers = me: I have a plenum and I tried to do a very anal job in sealing all the = leaks around the engine - I followed Fred Moreno's instructions there. I have different temperature patterns amongst the cylinders for = different situations. LOP cruise: #2 is the warmest and is usually between 330 and 370 = depending on altitude, humidity, fuel flow etc. - always very cool no = issue at all Climb 32" MAP, 2500 1/min, full rich : cylinder 4 wants to get warm and = I keep the airspeed around 180 in order to stay below 400F. This is the = situation I am not really happy about - if I don't pay attention on a = warm day the #4 will get above 400F Climb 2500 1/min, full rich, full throttle: even temperature profile = amongst the cylinders. Engine runs generally cooler and airplane climbs = faster. =20 I tried to watch the EGTs and see if #4 is running lean but I could not = tell a difference in the EGT. #4 has the dip stick pipe and more hoses = that could influence airflow. =20 Any idea why #4 is warmer at 32"? =20 Thanks for your help =20 Ralf =20 From: schroder [mailto:schroder@timesync.com]=20 Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 8:56 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [LML] Re: TSIO 550 Hot #2 cylinder =20 Pete, can you post pictures of this scoop and oil cooler box? Thanks dave =20 From: pete@leapfrogventures.com Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 5:14 AM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Re: TSIO 550 Hot #2 cylinder =20 #2 was also my hottest cylinder. First I installed the cupped insert = that was listed in one of the on-line articles that allows the air to = flow around the shallow fins on the oil cooler side of #2. I learned = that TCM cylinders have asymmetric depths on the fins on the left vs = right sides. The left sides have very deep channels between the fins, = while on the right side the cylinder barrel comes right up to the top of = the cooling fins. This means that the oil cooler box effectively blocks = the cooling air from going around to the lower right side of the = cylinder.=20 =20 However, even with the cupped insert, #2 was still my hottest. At that = point I remembered that my engine, which I got from a salvage of Adam = aircraft inventory, came with a piece of baffling for the oil box that = had a scoop installed inside the oil box that directed air around to the = lower right side of the cylinder. The scoop was =BE" deep at the top = and flush at the bottom, and about 3" wide. I moved this scoop from the = discarded Adam baffling piece onto the Lancair oil box (the hole was = nearly the same size as the previous dished shaped part I had installed = before). Not only did this solve my #2 CHT problem (it is now one of my = coolest cylinders), but it did not noticeably affect oil temps. A = win-win. =20 Pete =20 From: John Barrett [mailto:jbarrett@carbinge.com]=20 Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 9:02 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: TSIO 550 Hot #2 cylinder =20 Looking for advice for this problem. Oil cooler door may help a little = but the trade off of oil temp increase vs CHT increase is a trap at high = power climb and in slow flight. Two hours of flight time and problem is = consistent up to about 8,000 or 9,000 ft. One idea suggested is to fair = the inside top of the intake cowl on the left side because turbulence = here will decrease the airflow to the top left side of the engine. One = person indicated he did this with a IVP and achieved a 20 degree drop in = EGT by doing this.=20 =20 Anyone else have experience with that? =20 Thanks in advance and to those who have sent congratulatory emails. =20 Regards, =20 John Barrett, CEO Leading Edge Composites PO Box 428 Port Hadlock, WA 98339 =20 www.carbinge.com =20 =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CD1D5A.3FB60116 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Colyn,

I have the air guides underneath – it’s may be worth = checking if #4 closes as tight as the other = ones.

It will take a little bit to give you more data. I need to take = another flight for this and I just took everything apart yesterday for = the annual.

As soon as I am ready to go again I get you the = data.

Thanks
Ralf

 

From:= = Colyn Case [mailto:colyncase@earthlink.net]
Sent: Tuesday, = April 17, 2012 4:55 PM
To: = lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: Re: [LML] Re: TSIO 550 Hot #2 = cylinder

 

Ralf,

 

what is the fuel flow in each of these = scenarios?

as you lean, = when does #4 peak relative to other cylinders and what = FF?

do you have air guides = underneath the cylinders to keep the cooling air going through the fins = all the way to the bottom of the cylinder?

 

Colyn

 

On Apr 17, 2012, at 9:52 AM, <bronnenmeier@GROBSYSTEMS.COM= > <bronnenmeier@GROBSYSTEMS.COM= > wrote:



Dear subscribers,=

 =

Since we are talking about hot cylinders I got one question that = bothers me:=

I have a plenum and I tried to do a very anal job in sealing all the = leaks around the engine – I followed Fred Moreno’s = instructions there.=

I have different temperature patterns amongst the cylinders for = different situations.=

LOP cruise: #2 is the warmest and is usually between 330 and 370 = depending on altitude, humidity, fuel flow etc. – always very cool = no issue at all=

Climb 32” MAP, 2500 1/min, full rich : cylinder 4 wants to get = warm and I keep the airspeed around 180 in order to stay below 400F. = This is the situation I am not really happy about – if I = don’t pay attention on a warm day the #4 will get above = 400F=

Climb 2500 1/min, full rich, full throttle: even temperature profile = amongst the cylinders. Engine runs generally cooler and airplane climbs = faster.=

 =

I tried to watch the EGTs and see if #4 is running lean but I could = not tell a difference in the EGT. #4 has the dip stick pipe and more = hoses that could influence airflow.=

 =

Any idea why #4 is warmer at 32”?=

 =

Thanks for your help=

 =

Ralf=

 =

From:=  schroder [mailto:schroder@timesync.= com] 
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 8:56 = PM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Sub= ject: Re: [LML] Re: = TSIO 550 Hot #2 cylinder=

 =

Pete, can you = post pictures of this scoop and oil cooler box?  Thanks=

dave=

=  =

= From:=  = pete@leapfrogventures.com<= span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>=

= Sent:=  = Monday, April 16, 2012 5:14 AM=

= Subject:=  = [LML] Re: TSIO 550 Hot #2 cylinder=

 =

#2 was also my hottest cylinder.  First I installed the cupped = insert that was listed in one of the on-line articles that allows the = air to flow around the shallow fins on the oil cooler side of #2.  = I learned that TCM cylinders have asymmetric depths on the fins on the = left vs right sides.  The left sides have very deep channels = between the fins, while on the right side the cylinder barrel comes = right up to the top of the cooling fins.  This means that the oil = cooler box effectively blocks the cooling air from going around to the = lower right side of the cylinder. =

 =

However, even with the cupped insert, #2 was still my hottest.  At = that point I remembered that my engine, which I got from a salvage of = Adam aircraft inventory, came with a piece of baffling for the oil box = that had a scoop installed inside the oil box that directed air around = to the lower right side of the cylinder.  The scoop was =BE” = deep at the top and flush at the bottom, and about 3” wide.  = I moved this scoop from the discarded Adam baffling piece onto the = Lancair oil box (the hole was nearly the same size as the previous = dished shaped part I had installed before).  Not only did this = solve my #2 CHT problem (it is now one of my coolest cylinders), but it = did not noticeably affect oil temps.  A win-win.=

 =

Pete=

 =

= From:=  = John Barrett [mailto:jbarrett@carbinge.= com] 
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 9:02 = PM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Sub= ject: TSIO 550 Hot = #2 cylinder=

 =

Looking for advice for this problem.  Oil cooler door may help a = little but the trade off of oil temp increase vs CHT increase is a trap = at high power climb and in slow flight.  Two hours of flight time = and problem is consistent up to about 8,000 or 9,000 ft.  One idea = suggested is to fair the inside top of the intake cowl on the left side = because turbulence here will decrease the airflow to the top left side = of the engine.  One person indicated he did this with a IVP and = achieved a 20 degree drop in EGT by doing this. =

 =

Anyone else have experience with that?=

 =

Thanks in advance and to those who have sent congratulatory = emails.=

 =

Regards,=

 =

John Barrett, CEO=

Leading Edge Composites=

PO Box 428=

Port Hadlock, WA 98339=

 =

 =

 

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