X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 14:36:43 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from vms173009pub.verizon.net ([206.46.173.9] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.1) with ESMTP id 5102222 for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 24 Aug 2011 10:21:15 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=206.46.173.9; envelope-from=danny.miller@verizon.net Received: from DannyLaptop ([unknown] [71.114.1.123]) by vms173009.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 32bit (built Apr 16 2009)) with ESMTPA id <0LQF00LWYRU1IOQ1@vms173009.mailsrvcs.net> for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 24 Aug 2011 09:20:27 -0500 (CDT) From: "Danny Miller" X-Original-To: "'Gary Casey'" , References: In-reply-to: Subject: RE: How do I run lean of peak? X-Original-Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 10:20:23 -0400 X-Original-Message-id: <001301cc6268$f6dcad40$e49607c0$@miller@verizon.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01CC6247.6FCB0D40" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-index: Acxg1SJ/4WUH64hDSSy0OnQCmMoT7wBkiqzg Content-language: en-us This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01CC6247.6FCB0D40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gary, et.al, I certainly can=E2=80=99t speak to what others are getting but I have = GAMI injectors and my engine has been flow balanced. On consistent 2.5 = hour flights from VA to MI I indicate about 8.5 to 8.8 gph. This is = backed up by the amount of fuel I replace in the tanks which is about 22 = gal. =E2=80=93 never been more but sometimes a little less. I fly at = 2400 rpm and whatever MP I can get (usually about 21=E2=80=9D) at 10,000 = ft. So again, for me, the expense of this $995 course just = doesn=E2=80=99t work out for my ROI. =20 Danny Miller N 38=C2=B0 43' 25.7" W 77=C2=B0 30' 38.6" =20 From: Gary Casey [mailto:casey.gary@yahoo.com]=20 Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 10:10 AM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: How do I run lean of peak? =20 I won't comment on other aspects of LOP operation, as Walter pretty much = covered that. But I think the ROI calculations below are not realistic. = I flew behind an IO-360(Lyc) for many hours and, depending on the power = setting) the ROP fuel flow was more like 11 to 12 GPH. The LOP number = was, as Danny suggested, about 8.5. This was at about 12,000 feet and = 2500 rpm. Instead of the 0.5 GPH savings, it is more realistically 1.5 = and up to 2.5 GPH savings. That brings the break-even in cost down to = maybe 100 hours from 331. And that doesn't count the - in my experience = - doubled time between spark plug cleanings and potentially longer time = between oil changes. I run about 70 hours instead of 50. Then there is = the increased engine life because of lower peak cylinder pressures and = lower CHT's. Granted, you will take a minute or two longer to get where = you are going. My ES cruises at about 174 LOP (12.3 GPH) and 180 ROP = (15+ GPH). What's not to like? Gary Csey =20 I=E2=80=99m not convinced of the ROI for spending $995 on this course in = my particular case. As an example, for my LNC2 with an IO-360, if I = burn 9 gph running ROP and 8.5 gph running LOP (best case scenario), how = long does it take to recover the expense? To keep it simple, = let=E2=80=99s say I spend $6/gal. So, that=E2=80=99s $995 x gal/$6 / = 0.5gph =3D 331.7 hrs, or about 3 years of flying. So, the question = becomes, is it worth all the hub bub? Again, for me, I think not. For = you guys with the high burn rates, maybe so. But what is your actual = hourly saving and is it worth the additional stress on your engines for = the potentially much lower TBO? You decide and your mileage may vary. =20 Danny Miller ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01CC6247.6FCB0D40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Gary, = et.al,

I certainly can=E2=80=99t speak = to what others are getting but I have GAMI injectors and my engine has = been flow balanced.=C2=A0 On consistent 2.5 hour flights from VA to MI I = indicate about 8.5 to 8.8 gph.=C2=A0 This is backed up by the amount of = fuel I replace in the tanks which is about 22 gal. =E2=80=93 never been = more but sometimes a little less.=C2=A0 I fly at 2400 rpm and whatever = MP I can get (usually about 21=E2=80=9D) at 10,000 ft.=C2=A0 So again, = for me, the expense of this $995 course just doesn=E2=80=99t work out = for my ROI.

 <= /p>

Danny = Miller

N 38=C2=B0 43' = 25.7"

W 77=C2=B0 30' = 38.6"

 <= /p>

From: Gary Casey = [mailto:casey.gary@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 = 10:10 AM
To: = lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: Re: How do I run lean of = peak?

 

<= p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'>I = won't comment on other aspects of LOP operation, as Walter pretty much = covered that.  But I think the ROI calculations below are not = realistic.  I flew behind an IO-360(Lyc) for many hours and, = depending on the power setting) the ROP fuel flow was more like 11 to 12 = GPH.  The LOP number was, as Danny suggested, about 8.5.  This = was at about 12,000 feet and 2500 rpm.  Instead of the 0.5 GPH = savings, it is more realistically 1.5 and up to 2.5 GPH savings. =  That brings the break-even in cost down to maybe 100 hours from = 331.  And that doesn't count the - in my experience - doubled time = between spark plug cleanings and potentially longer time between oil = changes.  I run about 70 hours instead of 50.  Then there is = the increased engine life because of lower peak cylinder pressures and = lower CHT's.  Granted, you will take a minute or two longer to get = where you are going.  My ES cruises at about 174 LOP (12.3 GPH) and = 180 ROP (15+ GPH).  What's not to like?

Gary = Csey

 

I=E2=80=99m not convinced of = the ROI for spending $995 on this course in my particular case.  As = an example, for my LNC2 with an IO-360, if I burn 9 gph running ROP and = 8.5 gph running LOP (best case scenario), how long does it take to = recover the expense?  To keep it simple, let=E2=80=99s say I spend = $6/gal.  So, that=E2=80=99s $995 x gal/$6 / 0.5gph =3D 331.7 hrs, = or about 3 years of flying.  So, the question becomes, is it worth = all the hub bub?  Again, for me, I think not.  For you guys = with the high burn rates, maybe so.  But what is your actual hourly = saving and is it worth the additional stress on your engines for the = potentially much lower TBO?  You decide and your mileage may = vary.

 

Danny Miller

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