X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 14:36:43 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from vms173017pub.verizon.net ([206.46.173.17] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.1) with ESMTP id 5102271 for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 24 Aug 2011 11:03:56 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=206.46.173.17; envelope-from=danny.miller@verizon.net Received: from DannyLaptop ([unknown] [71.114.1.123]) by vms173017.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 32bit (built Apr 16 2009)) with ESMTPA id <0LQF002FYTTDBZT0@vms173017.mailsrvcs.net> for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 24 Aug 2011 10:03:16 -0500 (CDT) From: "Danny Miller" X-Original-To: , References: In-reply-to: Subject: RE: [LML] Re: How do I run lean of peak? X-Original-Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 11:03:11 -0400 X-Original-Message-id: <002301cc626e$f1ceac80$d56c0580$@miller@verizon.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0024_01CC624D.6ABD0C80" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-index: Acxg1SMYpyIPaCdXR2OTcZxtho+mrwBmZ/KQ Content-language: en-us This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01CC624D.6ABD0C80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There appears to be a lot of information in those articles. I = downloaded them and will read them during my long commute to & from = work. Thanks for the info. =20 Danny Miller N 38=C2=B0 43' 25.7" W 77=C2=B0 30' 38.6" =20 From: Sky2high@aol.com [mailto:Sky2high@aol.com]=20 Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 10:10 AM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [LML] Re: How do I run lean of peak? =20 Danny, =20 If you understand your engine, it is wise to have the LOP tool in your = kitbag. I fly both ways because, it depends. At altitude my, uh, = enhanced IO 320 may burn 9 gph ROP and 7 gph LOP with the excruciating = speed penalty of maybe 5 KIAS. I carry 43 gallons and consider the 9 = gallons in the header as reserve. That means the remaining 34 gallons = is what I got. Let's say 30 for loss due to taxi and climb. At 9 gph I = can stay aloft for 3 hr 20 min. At 7 gph that goes to 4 hr 15 min. = ROP, 195 KTAS is a range of about 650 NM. LOP, 190 KTAS is a range of = about 815 NM. Lets see, to visit my son in Austin (KARR to 3R9, 826 NM) = ROP I would have to stop for fuel and that always takes an hour = (descend, land, fill, climb out, etc.). So, at 195 KTAS that's 5:15 = (4:15 + 1) and LOP at 190 KTAS it takes 4:20 minutes, no stopping. One = January I made it from Chicago to Tampa in just under 4 hours LOP and = with 50 Knot tailwinds. I landed with 13 gallons in the tanks. =20 On the other hand, I have turned a measured 202 Knots on the 2006 = AirVenture race flying at 2000 MSL, 2640 rpm, WOT, ROP (about 14.3 gph). =20 Regardless, you should perform the GAMI lean test to make sure each = cylinder is producing the same power. If not, there are possible ways = to improve cylinder closeness without necessarily changing injector = size. =20 =20 It's OK if you think the course is pricey, it is. PLUS, you will get = the pitch for GAMI injectors. However, at least read the Pelican's = Perch articles (AVWEB archives) Nos 63, 64, 65 and 66. They have been = very useful.=20 =20 Grayhawk=20 =20 In a message dated 8/21/2011 1:10:08 P.M. Central Daylight Time, = danny.miller@verizon.net writes: I=E2=80=99m not convinced of the ROI for spending $995 on this course in = my particular case. As an example, for my LNC2 with an IO-360, if I = burn 9 gph running ROP and 8.5 gph running LOP (best case scenario), how = long does it take to recover the expense? To keep it simple, = let=E2=80=99s say I spend $6/gal. So, that=E2=80=99s $995 x gal/$6 / = 0.5gph =3D 331.7 hrs, or about 3 years of flying. So, the question = becomes, is it worth all the hub bub? Again, for me, I think not. For = you guys with the high burn rates, maybe so. But what is your actual = hourly saving and is it worth the additional stress on your engines for = the potentially much lower TBO? You decide and your mileage may vary. =20 Danny Miller N 38=C2=B0 43' 25.7" W 77=C2=B0 30' 38.6" =20 From: Steve Colwell [mailto:mcmess1919@yahoo.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 12:40 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: How do I run lean of peak? =20 Claudette and I attended the Advanced Pilot Course a couple of years = ago. Of the 50 or so attendees, (and there were skeptics,) I = don=E2=80=99t think anyone left without agreement their procedures are = the best way to operate an engine. The presentation is easy to follow = with complete explanation of what is happening and why. Any remaining = questions are answered and everything is documented. The cost of the = course should be easily amortized by fuel savings and reduced = maintenance. They even provide very comfortable swivel chairs. =20 =20 Steve Colwell Legacy IO-550 =20 =20 Subject: [LML] How do I run lean of peak? =20 If you operate your engine ROP at high power settings you have a much = greater chance of damaging your engine than by anything you might do = LOP. =20 The next Live APS class is October 7-9. =20 Walter Atkinson Advanced Pilot Seminars =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01CC624D.6ABD0C80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

There appears to = be a lot of information in those articles.=C2=A0 I downloaded them and = will read them during my long commute to & from work.=C2=A0 Thanks = for the info.

 <= /p>

Danny = Miller

N 38=C2=B0 43' = 25.7"

W 77=C2=B0 30' = 38.6"

 <= /p>

From: = Sky2high@aol.com [mailto:Sky2high@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 = 10:10 AM
To: = lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: Re: [LML] Re: How do I = run lean of peak?

 

D= anny,

&= nbsp;

I= f you understand your engine, it is wise to have the LOP tool in your = kitbag.  I fly both ways because, it depends.  At altitude my, = uh, enhanced  IO 320 may burn 9 gph ROP and 7 gph LOP with the = excruciating speed penalty of maybe 5 KIAS.  I carry 43 gallons and = consider the 9 gallons in the header as reserve.  That means the = remaining 34 gallons is what I got.  Let's say 30 for loss due to = taxi and climb.  At 9 gph I can stay aloft for 3 hr 20 min.  = At 7 gph that goes to 4 hr 15 min.  ROP, 195 KTAS is a range of = about 650 NM.  LOP, 190 KTAS is a range of about 815 NM.  = Lets see, to visit my son in Austin (KARR to 3R9, 826 NM) ROP I would = have to stop for fuel and that always takes an hour (descend, land, = fill, climb out, etc.). So, at 195 KTAS that's 5:15 (4:15 + 1) and LOP = at 190 KTAS it takes 4:20 minutes, no stopping.  One January I made = it from Chicago to Tampa in just under 4 hours LOP and with 50 Knot = tailwinds.  I landed with 13 gallons in the = tanks.

&= nbsp;

O= n the other hand, I have turned a measured 202 Knots on the = 2006 AirVenture race flying at 2000 MSL, 2640 rpm, WOT, ROP (about = 14.3 gph).

&= nbsp;

R= egardless, you should perform the GAMI lean test to make sure each = cylinder is producing the same power.  If not, there are = possible ways to improve cylinder closeness without necessarily = changing injector = size.  

&= nbsp;

I= t's OK if you think the course is pricey, it is.  PLUS, you will = get the pitch for GAMI injectors.  However, at least read the = Pelican's Perch articles (AVWEB archives) Nos 63, 64, 65 and = 66. They have been very = useful. 

&= nbsp;

G= rayhawk 

&= nbsp;

I= n a message dated 8/21/2011 1:10:08 P.M. Central Daylight Time, = danny.miller@verizon.net = writes:

I=E2=80=99m not convinced of = the ROI for spending $995 on this course in my particular case.  As = an example, for my LNC2 with an IO-360, if I burn 9 gph running ROP and = 8.5 gph running LOP (best case scenario), how long does it take to = recover the expense?  To keep it simple, let=E2=80=99s say I spend = $6/gal.  So, that=E2=80=99s $995 x gal/$6 / 0.5gph =3D 331.7 hrs, = or about 3 years of flying.  So, the question becomes, is it worth = all the hub bub?  Again, for me, I think not.  For you guys = with the high burn rates, maybe so.  But what is your actual hourly = saving and is it worth the additional stress on your engines for the = potentially much lower TBO?  You decide and your mileage may = vary.

 <= /p>

Danny = Miller

N 38=C2=B0 43' = 25.7"

W 77=C2=B0 30' = 38.6"

 <= /p>

From:= Steve Colwell [mailto:mcmess1919@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 = 12:40 PM
To: = lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: How do I run lean of = peak?

 

Claudette and I attended the = Advanced Pilot Course a couple of years ago.  Of the 50 or so = attendees, (and there were skeptics,) I don=E2=80=99t think anyone left = without agreement their procedures are the best way to operate an = engine.  The presentation is easy to follow with complete = explanation of what is happening and why.  Any remaining questions = are answered and everything is documented.  The cost of the course = should be easily amortized by fuel savings and reduced = maintenance.  They even provide very comfortable swivel = chairs. 

 

Steve Colwell  Legacy IO-550

 

 

=
Subject: [LML] How do = I run lean of peak?

 

If you operate your engine ROP at = high power settings you have a much greater chance of damaging your = engine than by anything you might do = LOP.

 

The next Live APS class is = October 7-9.

 

Walter = Atkinson

Advanced Pilot = Seminars

 

 

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