X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 13:46:23 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from mail.cvwp.com ([209.235.254.29] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c3j) with ESMTPS id 4982754 for lml@lancaironline.net; Fri, 13 May 2011 12:32:27 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.235.254.29; envelope-from=ronr@advanceddesign.com Received: (qmail 360 invoked by uid 89); 13 May 2011 16:31:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO HP68182789221) (64.140.206.227) by mail.cvwp.com with SMTP; 13 May 2011 16:31:50 -0000 X-Original-Message-ID: From: "Ron Raby" X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" References: Subject: Re: [LML] Re: N23PH Flight time X-Original-Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 12:32:08 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003F_01CC1169.C6934400" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6090 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01CC1169.C6934400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I did the Gami lean test a while ago and My IO 550 N at 9600 ft press = alt, full throttle, MP 21.9 the peak egt's happened at between 14.6 and = 14.4 GPH. At 13.8 GPH my leanest cyl was 39 degrees L.O.P. and the = richest was 23 degrees L.O.P. Regards Ron Raby Lancair ES ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Colyn Case=20 To: lml@lancaironline.net=20 Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 12:12 PM Subject: [LML] Re: N23PH Flight time I don't have definitive information. As far as I know, never took HPAT or equivalent. As far as I know, total time in last 6 months was the 5 hours engine = breakin time. There were conflicting reports about whether the "pressure" problem = was oil pressure or fuel pressure. I believe he was intending to operate LOP on this trip. For the APS view on engine breakin see: = http://lists.kjsl.com/pipermail/beech-owners/2008-March/073658.html Anyone have LOP numbers for an IO-550 at 8000? Again the log records 3:17 of flight but does not include the climb (7 = minutes?) nor the descent ( 12 minutes? but was that power on or power off? one = thing very peculiar about the track log is that there is no descent.) 3:17 + 7 + 12 =3D 3:36 If you add 3 gallons for climb and take off, the total burns come out = like this: burn rate total burn 14 53.4 15 57 16 60.6 17 64.2 If he were really at 17 and knew it I think he would have done = something about it. I suspect there were other contributing factors. ...like faulty fuel = flow reporting, faulty fuel level gauging, max usable fuel less than = thought, or maybe it really was oil pressure. I looked at the google earth view for the general area. I'm not sure = which field he landed in but they all looked smallish and maybe = intimidating at speed. It's hard to know what happened in the final moments but the wreckage = doesn't look consistent with forward progress once on the ground. On May 12, 2011, at 9:26 AM, MikeEasley@aol.com wrote: Do we know this was fuel exhaustion? I know I ran my IO-550 150+ = degrees ROP throughout the break-in process. I also flew low to keep = 75% power. That's at or above 15 GPH. I thought I read something about oil pressure. I guess we'll find = out more in time. Only 5 hours on a newly rebuilt engine seems minimal = before a long cross country. A rebuilt engine doesn't constitute a = major modification, so there's really no need to re-enter Phase 1 flight = testing for a minimum of 5 hours, unless there was more work done that = just an R&R. Losing an engine shouldn't be fatal. What do we know about the = pilot and his training, time in type, etc.? Maybe Colyn can give us a = bit more about the pilot's experience. Just sorting through the scenario like I do with every Lancair = accident. Mike Easley Colorado Springs In a message dated 5/11/2011 1:17:19 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, = edmartintx@aol.com writes: At high altitude, a stock Legacy with IO-550 should burn = approximately 10.5 gallons/hour using "lean-of-peak" technique. In = this example, actual flight time was over four hours with 21 gallons = remaining (66-gallon capacity). Please see: = http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N767EM =20 J. E. MARTIN -----Original Message----- From: Karen Farnsworth To: lml Sent: Tue, May 10, 2011 11:22 am Subject: [LML] Re: N23PH Crash -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On = Behalf Of Tom McNerney Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 07:33 To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Re: N23PH Crash Flight Aware shows 3 hours 50 min, not 3 hours 15 min. That is a = long way on 60 gallons.. Tom www.N54SG.com=20 If, as has been reported, the engine was new, I would think that = it was still being broken in. This would lead me to thing that fuel flow = would be on the high side; thus reducing range. Just a thought. Lynn Farnsworth ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01CC1169.C6934400 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I did the Gami lean test a while ago = and My IO 550=20 N at 9600 ft press alt, full throttle, MP 21.9 the peak egt's = happened at=20 between 14.6 and 14.4 GPH. At 13.8 GPH my leanest cyl was 39 degrees = L.O.P. and=20 the richest was 23 degrees L.O.P.
 
Regards
 
Ron Raby
Lancair ES
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Colyn=20 Case
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 = 12:12 PM
Subject: [LML] Re: N23PH Flight = time

I don't have definitive information.
As far as I know, never took HPAT or equivalent.
As far as I know, total time in last 6 months was the 5 hours = engine=20 breakin time.
There were conflicting reports about whether the "pressure" = problem was=20 oil pressure or fuel pressure.
I believe he was intending to operate LOP on this trip.
For the APS view on engine breakin see:  http://lists.kjsl.com/pipermail/beech-owners/2008-March/073658.html
Anyone=20 have LOP numbers for an IO-550 at 8000?

Again the log records 3:17 of flight but does not include the = climb (7=20 minutes?)
nor the descent ( 12 minutes? but was that power on or power off? = one=20 thing very peculiar about the track log is that there is no = descent.)
3:17 + 7 + 12 =3D 3:36
If you add 3 gallons for climb and take off, the total burns come = out=20 like this:

burn rate   =    =20   total burn

14     =    =20        53.4
15     =    =20        57
16     =    =20        60.6
17     =    =20        64.2

If he were really at = 17 and knew=20 it I think he would have done something about it.
I suspect there were = other=20 contributing factors.   ...like faulty fuel flow reporting, = faulty fuel=20 level gauging, max usable fuel less than thought,  or maybe it = really was=20 oil pressure.

I looked at the = google earth view=20 for the general area.  I'm not sure which field he landed in but = they all=20 looked smallish and maybe intimidating at speed.
It's hard to know = what happened=20 in the final moments but the wreckage doesn't look consistent with = forward=20 progress once on the ground.
On May 12, 2011, at 9:26 AM, MikeEasley@aol.com = wrote:
Do we know this was fuel exhaustion? I know I ran my IO-550 = 150+=20 degrees ROP throughout the break-in process.  I also flew = low to=20 keep 75% power. That's at or above 15 GPH.
 
I thought I read something about oil pressure. I guess we'll = find out=20 more in time.  Only 5 hours on a newly rebuilt engine seems = minimal=20 before a long cross country.  A rebuilt engine doesn't = constitute a=20 major modification, so there's really no need to re-enter Phase 1 = flight=20 testing for a minimum of 5 hours, unless there was more work done = that just=20 an R&R.
 
Losing an engine shouldn't be fatal.  What do we know = about the=20 pilot and his training, time in type, etc.?  Maybe Colyn can = give us a=20 bit more about the pilot's experience.
 
Just sorting through the scenario like I do with every Lancair=20 accident.
 
Mike Easley
Colorado Springs
 
In a message dated 5/11/2011 1:17:19 P.M. Mountain Daylight = Time, edmartintx@aol.com = writes:
        &nbs= p;=20 At high altitude, a stock Legacy with IO-550 should burn = approximately=20 10.5 gallons/hour using "lean-of-peak" = technique.    In=20 this example, actual flight time was over four hours with 21 = gallons=20 remaining (66-gallon capacity).  Please see:   http://flightaware.com= /live/flight/N767EM =20

J. E. MARTIN
-----Original=20 Message-----
From: Karen Farnsworth <farnsworth@charter.net>
= To:=20 lml <lml@lancaironline.net>
Se= nt:=20 Tue, May 10, 2011 11:22 am
Subject: [LML] Re: N23PH = Crash

 
 
From:=20 Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Tom=20 McNerney
Sent: = Monday,=20 May 09, 2011 07:33
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: N23PH=20 Crash
 
Flight Aware shows 3 hours 50 = min, not 3=20 hours 15 min.  That is a long way on 60=20 gallons..
 
Tom
www.N54SG.com=20
 
If, as = has been=20 reported, the engine was new, I would think that it was still = being broken=20 in. This would lead me to thing that fuel flow would be on the = high side;=20 thus reducing range.
 
Just a=20 thought.
 
Lynn=20 = Farnsworth

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