| If you're not willing to give up on CBP why would you be willing to give up on AOPA from whom we can withdraw our funding instantly? I think we should all bug AOPA until we find someone that answers. I can't imagine a more apt project for them.
On Apr 22, 2011, at 1:56 PM, Kent wrote:
i passed the copy to a friend and here is what he
wrote back:
I just called that number, 866-247-2878.
I was handed off to Tony
Martinez <sp> who said he was an aviation
enforcement specialist at
the Air and Marine Operations Center in Riverside,
Calif.
Based on
the beeping I heard on the line, I assume the telephone call was
recorded.
He wanted to know who I was and who I represented or was
"with."
I gave him my first and last name and said I'm simply a pilot in
Florida.
The Reader's Digest version of our conversation, taken from
memory:
I explained I had some questions about a document -- the one in
question --
and read its title to him.
He asked where I got the
document.
I said someone gave it to me. More importantly, I added,
several of the six
document requirements are almost certainly incorrect,
mentioning #5 (pilot's
logbook) and #6 (Form 337). I pointed out these
aren't FAA requirements.
He said Form 337s are paperwork for
modifications to the aircraft and must
be in the aircraft.
I said I
thought the only Form 337 that must be carried in the aircraft was
one for
the installation of extra fuel tanks.
He said I should contact the FAA
with my concerns.
I said this is a Dept of Homeland Security guide, not
an FAA document, so I
didn't think the appropriate action was to contact the
FAA.
He said he was more concerned about where I got the
document.
I explained I was worried I'd be confronted by law-enforcement
officers at
an airport and would run into problems because I wasn't carrying
all the
documents listed in the guide.
He said this was a "guide" and
"they'll be talking to us." Further
back-and-forth made me realize he meant
the officers would be in real-time
contact with Martinez's facility during
such a confrontation.
I said this might not be the case, and I mentioned
the John and Martha King
incident and one recently at a St. Louis airport,
where the police thought
the aircraft was carrying a federal fugitive when
in fact it contained a
lieutenant colonel in the Air Force Reserves who flew
F22s.
I asked who in the DHS I should contact to get the guide corrected.
He said
I could send my input to his facility.
He again mentioned his
concern about my having a copy of the doc.
How do we push back against
this? AOPA seems too distracted selling wine to
act on our
behalf.
----------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 10:10
PM
Subject: [LML] Re: beware, you may be
searched!
Here is a copy of a fax
CBP sent. See if you can find the mistakes! I am a bit surprised they believe
they can detain you if you do not have your pilot logbook onboard.
LOL!!!!
Jeff
-----Original
Message----- From: Bob Rickard < r.rickard@rcginc-us.com> To:
lml@lancaironline.netSent: Wed,
Apr 20, 2011 11:49 am Subject: [LML] Re: beware, you may be
searched!
We were able to get a copy
of the fax that was sent to the local police. The “Tip” came from
Customs and Border Patrol in CA. And the local Police chief was actually
apologetic because he knew it was bogus. The tip itself is
BS. They made it up. IF they had been watching me or investigating
me they would have known my wife was with me and not some dude. That is
the only part that is really a violation, they are making up an excuse to get
the locals excited, and then seeing what they find. Another example was
a guy accused of transporting computer chips that were stolen. I can
imagine them making up stories over the coffee in the morning.
How would the public react
if any Fed agency routinely made up tips so the cops would come to your house
and want to search? Imagine the news coverage. That is the same
thing going on here. If they have something on you, then absolutely go
for it. But they did not in the 3 cases we know about just at our local
airport.
The lesson you derived is
correct though. Know your rights, and also know how you can help them do
their job without violating your rights. That is the best thing you can
do (if innocent) while saying the least amount possible.
Bob
R
Seems pretty standard to
me. They checked out a tip that proved to be bogus. I don't see
any rights violations here or anything out of the ordinary.
The main
lesson IMO is that, while there are plenty of cops who abuse power, for the
most part if you behave in a civilized manner and realize they are just trying
to do their job, most of them will treat you fairly. That seems to be
what happened here.
Fellow LML’ers
It seems inevitable that the govt will search you at some
point. Just some info on what happened to me yesterday, you can
hopefully use this to react appropriately for your situation. This is
the third incident just at our little airport in Missouri of this
happening…..
Bob Rickard
IV-P
On 18 April, 2011, I filed IFR from KGEU to K1H0 direct, with
my wife on board. At 0845L, I departed KGEU VFR and picked up my filed
IFR clearance to K1H0 at FL210 with ABQ center. The flight was
uneventful and I cancelled IFR approximately 10 miles from K1H0 with St. Louis
Approach and landed at 1443L. Upon landing and taxi to my hanger (P3) at
Creve Coeur Airport, I was surrounded by 6 Maryland Heights Police cars and
about 10 officers. I exited the plane and was approached by the
supervisor and asked if I had any identification. I produced my military
ID (I am a LtCol in the Air Force Reserve flying F-22’s) as well as my
driver’s license, and asked the supervisor what the problem was. He told
me that he got a “tip” from the Federal Government that there may be a federal
fugitive on board by the name of Robert Mcrae. He wasn’t sure of the
name and asked me if I knew anyone by a name similar to that, to which I
answered “no” to all. He also stated that he was surprised to see a
woman in the plane with me since his informant said there would be two men in
the plane. I inquired as to who would give a tip like that, and he was
vague. A this point my wife exited the plane and was asked to produce
her ID as well and was questioned as to what we were doing and where we were
going and where we came from. It was apparent to the supervisor
pretty quickly that my wife and I were not federal fugitives as they ran our
ID’s, but he asked to search the airplane anyway. I told him that I was
aware of my rights and he could not search anything without a warrant, and he
was quick to add “or your permission” and “I could have the dogs come
out”. (side note – they don’t need a warrant to have the dogs check out
your aircraft – if the dogs find something and indicate, then they have
probable cause to search you without a warrant. If the dogs find nothing
they cannot search your aircraft until a warrant is issued). I told him
that I would play nice, had nothing to hide, and that my plan was to take my
belongings out of the airplane and put them in my car to go home, and I would
allow him to see what I took out and visually see inside the cockpit and
baggage compartment, but I was not allowing a search of the airplane. He
agreed to this. I took my 2 pieces of luggage out of the back and showed him
the contents briefly (not a complete search but opened up the zipper and
showed clothes on top) as well as the couple of vases we had bought in Phoenix
and lunch/sodas we had in the cockpit. They saw nothing of interest and
returned my wife’s ID, but kept mine and made further calls. The
supervisor indicated “I’m on overtime, I am outta here” and left, but another
officer checked with “EPIC” (unsure of the spelling) which he told me was an
international consortium that traded information on travel, etc. He told
me he was aware of my trip earlier this year to Mexico and the Cayman Islands
(honeymoon cruise) but there was nothing to get me in trouble. He then
returned my ID and let us go.
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