X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2011 10:18:04 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from web36906.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([209.191.85.74] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c2o) with SMTP id 4891722 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sat, 05 Mar 2011 02:15:19 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.191.85.74; envelope-from=chris_zavatson@yahoo.com Received: (qmail 29024 invoked by uid 60001); 5 Mar 2011 07:14:44 -0000 DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=DEh+20DUYsfL389On0ZjfnmcG7kXs4451ojywU9SK7wVpLtUgcSUg9PD24v4ycXut87n1ix3PjcaD0ZIBByqQAsD5SUKjwlmY3uQAbbIy+O06aed5PWcx2rBNgFZS2x7pxl2NRc/RoGX7B12vPXFYTN0Shvsav2CT55i6M22otk=; X-Original-Message-ID: <683524.28805.qm@web36906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: lw95WJYVM1mF3Xl5gH1jRL7IYtjvetfGSkRwUOt2vjSCRsV HXkN9xhHeq4LfF2xKnBAAI.K6BL0sBa3iXtXSGaqt4abkAMjOpCSSD31Sg9S VSXhGg_2YMZVIOOzTU9PirWbRc4iEC0iCcITd87TKaRs0z.uwVrTy4fWqugJ 9dzZ.Tt6kczdT0ZCt8qCE6No4l.8otX4Vuzd6ki22cYX.3WSByc74yJY21R3 scBcBzJ_mDBhvResPY5k.EEjW5RMDxDObuu4TVASVpmXpBwu0vdgjPAhR50T wcnvsiZNDFHzVoAzhMMNC5T5hEjkC6cIm0ELnxAvNmoih7i1Dp8CmIEIN9tl vjrK_nbVQHLCmokLXYVi7idrnw1NgExRhGwc4y4GKjnoeThULw78VqGN4 Received: from [99.133.183.231] by web36906.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 04 Mar 2011 23:14:44 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/559 YahooMailWebService/0.8.109.292656 References: <0D0CB7F9-D383-451E-86C9-34423DC31980@yahoo.com> X-Original-Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 23:14:44 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Zavatson Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Lancair 360 Inner Doors X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List In-Reply-To: <0D0CB7F9-D383-451E-86C9-34423DC31980@yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-19494284-1299309284=:28805" --0-19494284-1299309284=:28805 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0A=0AAh, but there is a way to stop it.=A0 It works, is=A0inexpensive and = has the added =0Abenefit of being the closest tolerance hinge tested to dat= e.=A0=A0This has been =0Adiscussed previously, but is worth going over agai= n.=0AThe key=A0to preventing wear in the standard MS hinge=A0is to distribu= te the load =0Aacross sufficient=A0area of the hinge material.=A0=A0The MS = hinge pin doesn't do =0Athis.=A0=A0Its diameter is=A0too small.=A0 Here is = where the welding rod comes in. =A0 =0ABecause of its close tolerance=A0fit= , contact stresses are reduced=A0to an =0Ainsignificant=A0level.=A0 This=A0= effectively translates into an=A0infinite hinge =0Alife.=A0=A0I tried this = on my plane=A0~11 years ago and there is still no sign of =0Aplay.=0AThe po= int of the original post was in regards to shaking doors and play in the = =0Ahinge and rod end bearings. =A0This is where the welding rod approach is= better =0Athan anything=A0we have seen to date. =A0It has the least inhere= nt play.=A0 I would =0Acaution against using any hinge with nylon bearing m= aterial in this =0Aapplication.=A0 In the gear door=A0installation,=A0the a= ctuator is attached=A0out in =0Afront of=A0the hinge.=A0 This places a disp= roportionate load on the very first hinge =0Aelement.=A0Nylon is only good = to ~2,000 psi and by its very nature will creep =0Aunder load.=A0 Over time= , this will only add to the play in the=A0hinge and require =0Acontinuous r= eadjustment to the doors.=0A=0AChris Zavatson=0AN91CZ=0A360std=0Awww.N91CZ.= net=A0=0Ahttp://n91cz.com/HingePlay/hinges.htm=0A=0A=0A=A0=0A=0AOn Mar 4, 2= 011, at 11:15 AM, "John Barrett" wrote:=0A=0A=0ALot= s of talk about hinges on the gear doors.=A0 Consider that aluminum by its = =0Anature wears with time, friction and the elements.=A0 Probably no way to= stop it.=A0 =0AThat means the moment you put that aluminum hinge in servic= e the fit between the =0Apin and the hinge begins to wear and gradually bec= ome more and more sloppy.=0A>=A0=0A>Carbinge is designed with a nylon beari= ng that in our studies overcomes this =0A>quandary. =A0=0A>=A0=0A>Shameless= plug,=0A>=A0=0A>John Barrett=0A>Leading Edge Composites=0A>www.carbinge.co= m=0A>=A0=0A>From:Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Beh= alf Of Chris =0A>Zavatson=0A>Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 6:14 AM=0A>To: lm= l@lancaironline.net=0A>Subject: [LML] Re: Lancair 360 Inner Doors=0A>=A0=0A= >Jack,=0A>If you extend the hinge line all the way forward to the leading e= dge of the door =0A>when you change out the hinge, it will stop the prematu= re wear.=A0 The attached =0A>photo shows this mod with the original door in= stalled.=A0 It will not stop all the =0A>'shaking in the breeze' as seen in= the video link, but will help save the =0A>hinge.=A0 The moment arm for th= e actuator is still too small for the size of the =0A>door.=0A>http://www.n= 91cz.com/Outback-Gear/DoorShake.wmv=0A>=A0=0A>http://www.n91cz.com/misc/gea= r_hinge_small.JPG=0A>=A0=0A>Rod end bearings come in different flavors.=A0 = This goes for all the spherical =0A>bearings as well, If you upgrade to a b= etter alloy, it will prevent the play =0A>from developing.=A0 The load rati= ng will=A0seem excessive, but you will=A0never have =0A>to replace the bear= ing for=A0the life of the plane.=A0 Tolerances will remain=A0much =0A>bette= r.=A0=A0You can download=A0the Aurora catalog, for example, and see how dif= ferent =0A>series have different load ratings for the same dimensions.=A0 Y= ou'll need to go =0A>to a bearing place like Motion Industries to get these= .=0A>=A0=0A>Chris Zavatson=0A>N91CZ=0A>360std=0A>www.N91CZ.com=0A>=A0=0A>= =0A________________________________=0A=0A>From:JON ADDISON =0A>To: lml@lancaironline.net=0A>Sent: Thu, March 3, 2011 12:37:46 PM=0A= >Subject: [LML] Lancair 360 Inner Doors=0A>=0A>Lancair 360 Inner Doors... a= gain...=0A>=A0=0A>I have the larger inner doors and they vibrtate badly.=A0= (Someday I'll try to get =0A>the 3 piece carbon fiber doors)=0A>=A0=0A>But= for now:=A0 I'm in the process of changing the worn hindge to an extruded = =0A>aluminum hindge with an "over size" 3/32 " (.095 ") stainless steel wel= ding rod.=0A>=A0=0A>Plus replacing worn rod-end bearing.=A0 (New from Lanca= ir this morning)=0A>=A0=0A>Considering remaking the attach channel that con= nects the rod end bearing and =0A>actuator to the door.=A0 ie making it twi= ce as long as the origional.=A0 =0A>=0A>=A0=0A>Wondering if the attach poin= t under the seat needs to be make tighter with =0A>possibly metal sleeves= =A0 after drilling out the attach bracket on flloor.=0A>=A0=0A>Also, consid= ering making a tiny spoiler 1/8 " or so high and temp mounting on =0A>aft /= lower edge of door to stabalize it (and probably loose a knot).=0A>=A0=0A>= Opinions and fixes that worked??=A0 (Except the carbon doors which I can't = afford =0A>yet.)=0A>=A0=0A>And also does anyone know if the inner door actr= ator can be rebuilt... both or =0A>mine leak a bit.=0A>=A0=0A>Jack Addison= =0A>N360JS=A0 Sisters, Oregon=0A>=A0=0A>=0A________________________________= =0A=0A>No virus found in this message.=0A>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com=0A>V= ersion: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3480 - Release Date: 03/03/11=0A= =0A=0A --0-19494284-1299309284=:28805 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
=0A
Ah, but there is a way to stop it.  It w= orks, is inexpensive and has the added benefit of being the closest to= lerance hinge tested to date.  This has been discussed previously= , but is worth going over again.
=0A
The key to preventing we= ar in the standard MS hinge is to distribute the load across sufficien= t area of the hinge material.  The MS hinge pin doesn't do t= his.  Its diameter is too small.  Here is where the wel= ding rod comes in.   Because of its close tolerance fit, contact = stresses are reduced to an insignificant level.  This e= ffectively translates into an infinite hinge life.  I tried this on my plane ~11 years ago and there is still no sign of play.=0A
The point of the original post was in regards to shaking doors a= nd play in the hinge and rod end bearings.  This is where the welding = rod approach is better than anything we have seen to date.  It ha= s the least inherent play.  I would caution against using any hinge wi= th nylon bearing material in this application.  In the gear door = installation, the actuator is attached out in front of the h= inge.  This places a disproportionate load on the very first hinge ele= ment. Nylon is only good to ~2,000 psi and by its very nature will cre= ep under load.  Over time, this will only add to the play in the = hinge and require continuous readjustment to the doors.
=0A
 =
=0A
Chris Zavatson
=0A
N91CZ
=0A
360std
= =0A=0A<= DIV>http://n91cz.com/Hing= ePlay/hinges.htm
=0A
 
=0A

 
=0A
On Mar 4, 2011, at 11:15 AM, "John Barrett" <jbarrett@carbinge.com> wrote:

=0A=0A
=0A
=0A
= =0A

Lot= s of talk about hinges on the gear doors.  Consider that aluminum by i= ts nature wears with time, friction and the elements.  Probably no way= to stop it.  That means the moment you put that aluminum hinge in ser= vice the fit between the pin and the hinge begins to wear and gradually bec= ome more and more sloppy.

=0A

 

=0A

<= SPAN style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Carbinge is designed with a = nylon bearing that in our studies overcomes this quandary.  =0A

&n= bsp;

=0A

Shameless plug,

=0A

 

=0A

John Barrett

= =0A

Lea= ding Edge Composites

=0A

www.carbinge.com

=0A

 

=0A
= =0A
=0A

From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Be= half Of Chris Zavatson
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 6:14 AMTo: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: La= ncair 360 Inner Doors

=0A

 <= /P>=0A

=0A
=0A

= Jack,

=0A
=0A

If you extend the hinge line all the way forward to the leading = edge of the door when you change out the hinge, it will stop the premature = wear.  The attached photo shows this mod with the original door instal= led.  It will not stop all the 'shaking in the breeze' as seen in the = video link, but will help save the hinge.  The moment arm for the actu= ator is still too small for the size of the door.

=0A=0A
= =0A

 

=0A
=0A

http://www.n91cz.com/misc/gear_hinge_small.JPG

=0A
=0A

 

=0A
=0A

Rod end bearings come in different flavors.  This goes for all the = spherical bearings as well, If you upgrade to a better alloy, it will preve= nt the play from developing.  The load rating will seem excessive= , but you will never have to replace the bearing for the life of = the plane.  Tolerances will remain much better.  You ca= n download the Aurora catalog, for example, and see how different seri= es have different load ratings for the same dimensions.  You'll need t= o go to a bearing place like Motion Industries to get these.

=0A
=0A

 

=0A
=0A

Chris Zavatson

=0A
=0A

N91CZ

=0A
=0A

360std

=0A=0A
= =0A

 

= =0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A

From: JON ADDISON <jraddison@msn.com>
To: lml@la= ncaironline.net
Sent: Thu, March 3, 2011 12:37:46 PM
<= B>Subject: [LML] Lancair 360 Inner Doors

Lancair 360 Inne= r Doors... again...
 
I have the larger inner doors and they vib= rtate badly.  (Someday I'll try to get the 3 piece carbon fiber doors)=
 
But for now:  I'm in the process of changing the worn hi= ndge to an extruded aluminum hindge with an "over size" 3/32 " (.095 ") sta= inless steel welding rod.
 
Plus replacing worn rod-end bearing.  (New from Lancair this morning)
&= nbsp;
Considering remaking the attach channel that connects the rod end = bearing and actuator to the door.  ie making it twice as long as the o= rigional. 
 
Wondering if the attach point under the seat = needs to be make tighter with possibly metal sleeves  after drilling o= ut the attach bracket on flloor.
 
Also, considering making a ti= ny spoiler 1/8 " or so high and temp mounting on aft / lower edge of door t= o stabalize it (and probably loose a knot).
 
Opinions and fixes= that worked??  (Except the carbon doors which I can't afford yet.) 
And also does anyone know if the inner door actrator can be rebu= ilt... both or mine leak a bit.
 
Jack Addison
N360JS  S= isters, Oregon

=0A

 

=0A=0A
=0A=0A

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG = - www.avg.comVersion: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3480 - Release Date: 03/03/11


=0A=0A --0-19494284-1299309284=:28805--