X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 14:21:53 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from mta41.charter.net ([216.33.127.83] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c2a) with ESMTP id 4832612 for lml@lancaironline.net; Mon, 31 Jan 2011 10:53:31 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=216.33.127.83; envelope-from=troneill@charter.net Received: from imp11 ([10.20.200.11]) by mta41.charter.net (InterMail vM.7.09.02.04 201-2219-117-106-20090629) with ESMTP id <20110131155256.JSZM2629.mta41.charter.net@imp11> for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2011 10:52:56 -0500 Received: from wt01 ([209.225.8.41]) by imp11 with smtp.charter.net id 2Fso1g00c0t7FYZ05Fss0u; Mon, 31 Jan 2011 10:52:52 -0500 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=YWatrMyl0LkA:10 a=uW06Z_BKkFUA:10 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=hOpmn2quAAAA:8 a=oCcaPWc0AAAA:8 a=vb_QZM7rtNx6xLJ0dyIA:9 a=G8Upq4JC9O35QoeyytEA:7 a=Y60wfhpeHWXS9YW-Cb9hzWngRMMA:4 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=CVU0O5Kb7MsA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=hUswqBWy9Q8A:10 a=ul_RvsW5nDdLmFSr:21 a=S1yXHQWDs_UfbtkO:21 a=rjwPq9gHE9l3NWhx4fMA:9 a=zL1ba8m6qp0rVjPuwzoA:7 a=wh2to6WYrLKnsuB0PVKhtYFOZYcA:4 a=HTYxJso2EDhfwa0l:21 a=DASuN83xQcLSHGTH:21 Received: from [69.26.248.6] by enhanced.charter.net with HTTP; Mon, 31 Jan 2011 10:52:47 -0500 X-Original-Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 10:52:47 -0500 (EST) From: troneill@charter.net X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List X-Original-Message-ID: <319434964.7714369.1296489172895.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost> Subject: RE: [LML] Re: Weeping wing tank. super cool trick to fix it!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_7714345_436970602.1296489167782" User-Agent: Laszlo Mail 3 X-SID: 41 X-Originating-IP: [69.26.248.6] ------=_Part_7714345_436970602.1296489167782 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline That's really small! I'll check that out... should help me find the blue stains if I can poke it into the long, narrow space between the leading edge skin and the front spar's web. Thanks, Rick. Terrence L235/320 N211AL On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 7:17 AM, Rick Lafford wrote: For interior inspections, check out Harbor Freight. They have a relatively inexpensive video inspection camera that gets into tight spaces. I bought one and found it would even fit through the plug holes on my O-360. Rick RV-6 N146RV From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Terrence O'Neill Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 10:32 AM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Re: Weeping wing tank. super cool trick to fix it!!! Neat. I didn't know about the bubbles adn amplifying the sound. I made a manometer so I can limit the vacuum to about 6 inches water... and I just bought some PR-1005-L ... a quart. I think that'll be enough, as the leak seems to be in the upper part of the front spar web. Doesn't leak when below 78 gallons in the tank. Many thanks. Terrence 235/320 N211AL On Jan 29, 2011, at 10:36 PM, randy snarr wrote: Terrence, Take a deep breath. I had a similar issue on mine and the cure was not that bad. I have a trick that should help.. First the bad news, Remove the wing. (drain fuel first duh..) leave about a pint in the tank. Once the wing is off you can find the leak by putting a small amount of negative pressure on the tank and seal it up. You have to seal everything off first. I would connect a tube to the fuel or vent line and just suck on the tank with your mouth and then seal it off. You dont need much. I found this completely by accident. You never get all the fuel out and in this case that is ok. A pint of fuel in the tank is good for this trick. With a little negative pressure on the tank, rotate the wing and force the fuel around all the corners in the tank where the suspected leak is and listen carefully with your ear. When the fuel covers the hole in the tank you will hear the air bubbles passing through the fuel as it enters the tank. The empty wing is like a drum and the sound is amplified. I had a leak and found it at bottom front corner of the tank where the tank close out rib meets the lower skin forward at the spar. Now you know where the leak is.You can now remove the pint or so of fuel and dry out the tank. I used an alum rod with paper towels taped to the end to get it dry in the corner where gravity collects it. Once it is DRY. orient the wing so the leak is where gravity will take your sealer. I used the same gray epoxy based tank sealer lance recommends. U used a large seringe ( like for a cow) and injected about 1 cup of gray sealer as close to where the hole is through the gas cap hole. You wont be able to see any of this but you can do it by feel. Move the tank around slightly to completely cover the entire area where the hole is. I would seal up the tank again and put the negative pressure back on to push some goo into the leak hole for 20 minutes or so. Release the negative pressure and Support the tank with the hole at the lowest point and let it cure. Shazam, no more leak. Hope that helps.. Best, Randy Snarr 235/320 N694RS ( i mean real small as you can collapse your wing with too much!) "Flight by machines heavier than air is unpractical and insignificant, if not utterly impossible" -Simon Newcomb, 1902 --- On Mon, 1/24/11, Terrence O'Neill < troneill@charter.net > wrote: From: Terrence O'Neill < troneill@charter.net > Subject: [LML] Weeping wing tank. To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Monday, January 24, 2011, 5:57 AM This is a request for info on the possible similar experience of other LNC2 builder-fliers... a wing tank fuel leak. The very slow leak through the front wing spar, when fuel leveel is above about half way up, is of course uninspectable because of the leading edge -- and further because it is possibly behind the root area secondary web ... not to mention the fact that the spar web is sandwich construction and the interior skin leak can propagate spanwise to another portal in the forward web skin. So my question is, when I slosh-seal the tank, what is recommended as a prep for the tank inner surface? I've read MEK and another TankPrep stuff. For sealant I've looked at PR-1005-L, and at the automotive (supposedly) stuff, and phenol novolac. Any suggestions soulfully appreciated, for this worrisome job. Thanks. terrence N211AL LNC2 235/320. -- For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html ___________________________________ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3412 - Release Date: 01/30/11 ------=_Part_7714345_436970602.1296489167782 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
 That's really small!  I'll check = that out... should help me find the blue stains if I can poke it into the l= ong, narrow space between the leading edge skin and the front spar's web.
Thanks, Rick.

Terrence L235/320
N211AL

<= FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" SIZE=3D"2" COLOR=3D"#000000" LETTERSPACING=3D"0" KERN= ING=3D"0">


On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 7:17 AM, Rick Lafford wrote:

 For interior inspections, check out Harbor Freight. They have a= relatively inexpensive video inspection camera that gets into tight spaces= . I bought one and found it would even fit through the plug holes on my O-3= 60.
 
Rick
RV-6 N146RV
 
From: Lan= cair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Terren= ce O'Neill
Sent: Sunday,= January 30, 2011 10:32 AM
T= o: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: Weeping wing tank. super cool trick to fix it!!!
 
Neat.&nbs= p; I didn't know about the bubbles adn amplifying the sound.  
I made a = manometer so I can limit the vacuum to about 6 inches water...
and I just bough= t some PR-1005-L ... a quart.
I think that'll be enough, as the leak seems to be i= n the upper part of the front spar web.  Doesn't leak when below 78 ga= llons in the tank.
Many thanks.
 
Terrence
235/320 N211AL
 
  On Jan 29, 2011, at 10:36 PM, randy snarr wrot= e:

Terrence,
Take a deep breath. I had a simil= ar issue on mine and the cure was not that bad.
I have a trick that should help..

First the bad news, Remove the w= ing. (drain fuel first duh..) leave about a pint in the tank.
=
Once the wing is off y= ou can find the leak by putting a small amount of negative pressure on the = tank and seal it up. You have to seal everything off first. I would connect= a tube to the fuel or vent line and just suck on the tank with your mouth = and then seal it off. You dont need much.
= I found this completely by accident. You never get all the fuel = out and in this case that is ok.
A pint of fuel in the tank is good for this trick. With a little negative= pressure on the tank, rotate the wing and force the fuel around all the co= rners in the tank where the suspected leak is and listen carefully with you= r ear. When the fuel covers the hole in the tank you will hear the air bubb= les passing through the fuel as it enters the tank. The empty wing is like = a drum and the sound is amplified. I had a leak and found it at bottom fron= t corner of the tank where the tank close out rib meets the lower skin forw= ard at the spar. Now you know where the leak is.You can now remove the pint= or so of fuel and dry out the tank. I used an alum rod with paper towels t= aped to the end to get it dry in the corner where gravity collects it. Once= it is DRY. orient the wing so the leak is where gravity will take your sea= ler. I used the same gray epoxy based tank sealer lance recommends. U used = a large seringe ( like for a cow) and injected about 1 cup of gray sealer a= s close to where the hole is through the gas cap hole.
You wont be able to see any of this but you can do = it by feel. Move the tank around slightly to completely cover the entire ar= ea where the hole is. I would seal up the tank again and put the negative p= ressure back on to push some goo into the leak hole for 20 minutes or so. R= elease the negative pressure and Support the tank with the hole at the lowe= st point and let it cure.
Shaza= m, no more leak.
Hope that help= s..
Best,
Randy Snarr
235/320
N694RS

 ( i mean real small as you can collapse your wing with too much!)

"Fl= ight by machines heavier than air is unpractical and insignificant, if not = utterly impossible"
-S= imon Newcomb, 1902

<= FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" SIZE=3D"3" COLOR=3D"#000000" LETTERSPACING=3D"0" KERN= ING=3D"0">--- On Mon, 1/24/11, Terrence O'Neill < <= FONT COLOR=3D"#3333FF">troneill@charter.net= > wrote:
<= FONT FACE=3D"Verdana" SIZE=3D"3" COLOR=3D"#000000" LETTERSPACING=3D"0" KERN= ING=3D"0">
From: Terrence O'Neill = < troneill@charter.net= >
Subject: [LML] Weep= ing wing tank.
Date: Monday, January 24, 2011, 5:57 A= M

This is a request for info on t= he possible similar experience of other LNC2 builder-fliers... a wing tank = fuel leak.

The very slow leak through the front wing spar, when fuel leveel is above= about half way up, is of course uninspectable because of the leading edge = -- and further because it is possibly behind the root area secondary web ..= . not to mention the fact that the spar web is sandwich construction and th= e interior skin leak can propagate spanwise to another portal in the forwar= d web skin.

So my question is, when I slosh-seal the tank, what is recommended as a = prep for the tank inner surface?
I've read MEK and another TankPrep stuff.

For sealant I've looked at PR-1005-L, an= d at the automotive (supposedly) stuff, and  phenol novolac.
Any suggestions soulfully appreciated, f= or this worrisome job.
Thanks. =

terrence = N211AL
LNC2 235/320.


--
 
 
________= ___________________________

No virus fou= nd in this message.
Checked by = AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3412 - Release Date: 01/30/11 <= FONT COLOR=3D"#3333FF">
------=_Part_7714345_436970602.1296489167782--