X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 10:31:58 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from mta11.charter.net ([216.33.127.80] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c2a) with ESMTP id 4831429 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sun, 30 Jan 2011 09:43:50 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=216.33.127.80; envelope-from=troneill@charter.net Received: from imp10 ([10.20.200.15]) by mta11.charter.net (InterMail vM.7.09.02.04 201-2219-117-106-20090629) with ESMTP id <20110130144315.GYKN6966.mta11.charter.net@imp10> for ; Sun, 30 Jan 2011 09:43:15 -0500 Received: from [192.168.1.100] ([75.132.241.174]) by imp10 with smtp.charter.net id 1qjD1g0053mUFT705qjDvg; Sun, 30 Jan 2011 09:43:14 -0500 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=uW06Z_BKkFUA:10 a=hOpmn2quAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=ZlfFPZqZiknEp0gWcJkA:9 a=9kBNIduhesaMTgIcgYUA:7 a=WFTxEtiX800_qDG2ecTCixMpeKsA:4 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=CVU0O5Kb7MsA:10 a=hUswqBWy9Q8A:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=buMlbNJSGDWT_M0g_pcA:9 a=yVT9yP0RLQLweovl4AMA:7 a=0qTKt0wSYx2rQgWRs4Itgs0_F7UA:4 From: Terrence O'Neill Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1082) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-196-263811956 Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Weeping wing tank. super cool trick to fix it!!! X-Original-Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 08:43:11 -0600 In-Reply-To: X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" References: X-Original-Message-Id: <2F52CFF6-B352-441D-8E9C-446A8D4BCB07@charter.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1082) --Apple-Mail-196-263811956 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Neat. I didn't know about the bubbles adn amplifying the sound. =20 I made a manometer so I can limit the vacuum to about 6 inches water... and I just bought some PR-1005-L ... a quart. I think that'll be enough, as the leak seems to be in the upper part of = the front spar web. Doesn't leak when below 78 gallons in the tank. Many thanks. Terrence 235/320 N211AL On Jan 29, 2011, at 10:36 PM, randy snarr wrote: > Terrence, > Take a deep breath. I had a similar issue on mine and the cure was not = that bad. > I have a trick that should help.. >=20 > First the bad news, Remove the wing. (drain fuel first duh..) leave = about a pint in the tank. >=20 > Once the wing is off you can find the leak by putting a small amount = of negative pressure on the tank and seal it up. You have to seal = everything off first. I would connect a tube to the fuel or vent line = and just suck on the tank with your mouth and then seal it off. You dont = need much. > I found this completely by accident. You never get all the fuel out = and in this case that is ok. > A pint of fuel in the tank is good for this trick. With a little = negative pressure on the tank, rotate the wing and force the fuel around = all the corners in the tank where the suspected leak is and listen = carefully with your ear. When the fuel covers the hole in the tank you = will hear the air bubbles passing through the fuel as it enters the = tank. The empty wing is like a drum and the sound is amplified. I had a = leak and found it at bottom front corner of the tank where the tank = close out rib meets the lower skin forward at the spar. Now you know = where the leak is.You can now remove the pint or so of fuel and dry out = the tank. I used an alum rod with paper towels taped to the end to get = it dry in the corner where gravity collects it. Once it is DRY. orient = the wing so the leak is where gravity will take your sealer. I used the = same gray epoxy based tank sealer lance recommends. U used a large = seringe ( like for a cow) and injected about 1 cup of gray sealer as = close to where the hole is through the gas cap hole.=20 > You wont be able to see any of this but you can do it by feel. Move = the tank around slightly to completely cover the entire area where the = hole is. I would seal up the tank again and put the negative pressure = back on to push some goo into the leak hole for 20 minutes or so. = Release the negative pressure and Support the tank with the hole at the = lowest point and let it cure.=20 > Shazam, no more leak.=20 > Hope that helps.. > Best, > Randy Snarr=20 > 235/320 > N694RS >=20 >=20 > ( i mean real small as you can collapse your wing with too much!) >=20 > "Flight by machines heavier than air is unpractical and insignificant, = if not utterly impossible" > -Simon Newcomb, 1902 >=20 > --- On Mon, 1/24/11, Terrence O'Neill wrote: >=20 > From: Terrence O'Neill > Subject: [LML] Weeping wing tank. > To: lml@lancaironline.net > Date: Monday, January 24, 2011, 5:57 AM >=20 >=20 > This is a request for info on the possible similar experience of other = LNC2 builder-fliers... a wing tank fuel leak. >=20 > The very slow leak through the front wing spar, when fuel leveel is = above about half way up, is of course uninspectable because of the = leading edge -- and further because it is possibly behind the root area = secondary web ... not to mention the fact that the spar web is sandwich = construction and the interior skin leak can propagate spanwise to = another portal in the forward web skin. >=20 > So my question is, when I slosh-seal the tank, what is recommended as = a prep for the tank inner surface? > I've read MEK and another TankPrep stuff. >=20 > For sealant I've looked at PR-1005-L, and at the automotive = (supposedly) stuff, and phenol novolac. > Any suggestions soulfully appreciated, for this worrisome job. > Thanks. >=20 > terrence N211AL > LNC2 235/320. >=20 >=20 >=20 > -- > For archives and unsub = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html >=20 --Apple-Mail-196-263811956 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Neat. =  I didn't know about the bubbles adn amplifying the sound. =  
I made a manometer so I can limit the vacuum to about 6 = inches water...
and I just bought some PR-1005-L ... a = quart.
I think that'll be enough, as the leak seems to be in = the upper part of the front spar web.  Doesn't leak when below 78 = gallons in the tank.
Many = thanks.

Terrence
235/320 = N211AL


On Jan 29, 2011, at 10:36 = PM, randy snarr wrote:

Terrence,
Take a deep breath. = I had a similar issue on mine and the cure was not that bad.
I have a = trick that should help..

First the bad news, Remove the wing. = (drain fuel first duh..) leave about a pint in the tank.

Once the = wing is off you can find the leak by putting a small amount of negative = pressure on the tank and seal it up. You have to seal everything off = first. I would connect a tube to the fuel or vent line and just suck on = the tank with your mouth and then seal it off. You dont need much.
I = found this completely by accident. You never get all the fuel out and in = this case that is ok.
A pint of fuel in the tank is good for this = trick. With a little negative pressure on the tank, rotate the wing and = force the fuel around all the corners in the tank where the suspected = leak is and listen carefully with your ear. When the fuel covers the hole in the tank you will hear the air bubbles passing = through the fuel as it enters the tank. The empty wing is like a drum = and the sound is amplified. I had a leak and found it at bottom front = corner of the tank where the tank close out rib meets the lower skin = forward at the spar. Now you know where the leak is.You can now remove = the pint or so of fuel and dry out the tank. I used an alum rod with = paper towels taped to the end to get it dry in the corner where gravity = collects it. Once it is DRY. orient the wing so the leak is where = gravity will take your sealer. I used the same gray epoxy based tank = sealer lance recommends. U used a large seringe ( like for a cow) and = injected about 1 cup of gray sealer as close to where the hole is = through the gas cap hole.
You wont be able to see any of this but = you can do it by feel. Move the tank around slightly to completely cover = the entire area where the hole is. I would seal up the tank again and put the negative pressure back on to push some goo into the = leak hole for 20 minutes or so. Release the negative pressure and = Support the tank with the hole at the lowest point and let it cure. =
Shazam, no more leak.
Hope that helps..
Best,
Randy Snarr =
235/320
N694RS


 ( i mean real small as you can = collapse your wing with too much!)

"Flight by machines heavier than air is unpractical and = insignificant, if not utterly impossible"
-Simon Newcomb, = 1902

--- On Mon, 1/24/11, Terrence O'Neill <troneill@charter.net> = wrote:

From: Terrence O'Neill <troneill@charter.net>
Subje= ct: [LML] Weeping wing tank.
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Date: = Monday, January 24, 2011, 5:57 AM


This= is a request for info on the possible similar experience of other LNC2 builder-fliers... = a wing tank fuel leak.

The very slow leak through the front wing = spar, when fuel leveel is above about half way up, is of course = uninspectable because of the leading edge -- and further because it is = possibly behind the root area secondary web ... not to mention the fact = that the spar web is sandwich construction and the interior skin leak = can propagate spanwise to another portal in the forward web = skin.

So my question is, when I slosh-seal the tank, what is = recommended as a prep for the tank inner surface?
I've read MEK and = another TankPrep stuff.

For sealant I've looked at PR-1005-L, and = at the automotive (supposedly) stuff, and  phenol novolac.
Any = suggestions soulfully appreciated, for this worrisome = job.
Thanks.

terrence N211AL
LNC2 = 235/320.



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