X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 20:42:14 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from qmta15.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.27.228] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.9) with ESMTP id 4462591 for lml@lancaironline.net; Fri, 10 Sep 2010 16:20:37 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=76.96.27.228; envelope-from=j.hafen@comcast.net Received: from omta19.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.76]) by qmta15.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 50yu1f0041eYJf8AF8L3d9; Fri, 10 Sep 2010 20:20:03 +0000 Received: from [10.0.1.4] ([24.17.111.171]) by omta19.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 58L11f00F3hvfg8018L226; Fri, 10 Sep 2010 20:20:02 +0000 From: John Hafen Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1081) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-76-900123577 Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Engine failure ATC Transcript Super Legacy Twin Turbo TSIO 580 X-Original-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 13:20:01 -0700 In-Reply-To: X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" References: X-Original-Message-Id: <9574D43B-D239-424F-84DE-6D9424B2D2AF@comcast.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1081) --Apple-Mail-76-900123577 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I have a Continental in my IVP with the linked turbo system. Climbing over Mt. Ranier at 17k feet, one of the turbo hoses blew off. I = didn't know that at the time. All I knew is that I was climbing over = Ranier (a 14,500 foot volcano with no landing areas near by) and was = thrown forward in the seat as my manifold pressure went from 37 inches = to 22. I initially thought I had lost an engine, but it was still running. But = the reduction in manifold pressure was dramatic. And frightening. I = probably said a bad word or two (glad Mom wasn't with me) and may have = crapped myself as well, not sure. I decided to make like United or Delta and try to glide into SeaTac. So = I turned toward SeaTac and was about to call to enter their class B and = have them clear the runway, but about 12k feet, the engine started = feeling much happier. I returned to Paine without incident. A de-cowling revealed the slipped hose. It only came off about 1/4th = inch, but that obviously was enough to lose all turbo boost. I slipped = the hose back on and tightened the hell out of it, re-safety wired it, = and have flown happily every since. John Hafen IVP 413AJ On Sep 10, 2010, at 12:18 PM, Colyn Case wrote: > I always wondered why Continental did it that way (tying the turbo = outputs together). Now i know. > Sounds like this installation had a single fuel control but separate = turbo systems, implying that if one of the turbo systems has a problem, = there is no mixture that will make the whole engine happy. >=20 >=20 > On Sep 9, 2010, at 8:07 PM, cfi@instructor.net wrote: >=20 >> The installation on this Legacy is different than most. It uses a = manual wastegate and the left and right turbos aren't tied together. At = least that's the way it was when it was originally built. It's also a = Lycoming. =20 >>=20 >> Ron >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Colyn Case >> To: lml@lancaironline.net >> Sent: Thu, Sep 9, 2010 7:53 am >> Subject: [LML] Re: Engine failure ATC Transcript Super Legacy Twin = Turbo TSIO 580 >>=20 >> notwithstanding Charlies' comments I don't understand exactly what = happened to 3,4,6. The video says Mark tried moving the mixture both = directions with no success. I'm not understanding why that didn't = help...unless half the cylinders have reduced pressure and other half = have higher pressure so there is not optimal mixture. Also why 3,4,6 = and not 2,4,6. Was this a Lycoming? also, also, why did the plugs = foul so quickly? >>=20 >> on a Continental the turbo outputs are merged so that if you lose, = e.g. one hose, you would lose pressure on all cylinders. at least then = all cylinders face the same mixture situation. >>=20 >> anyway, just trying to figure out how you would manage this on a = continental. >>=20 >> On Sep 8, 2010, at 11:48 AM, randy snarr wrote: >>=20 >>> All, >>> Below is a link to a youtube video which contains a transcript of a = Legacy pilot who departed Redmond, OR on an IFR flight plan. He climbs = IMC to his assigned altitude at 21,000 and at 20,000 there is a big = BANG!! and the engine quits. >>> I only hope I would handle the same situation half as well... >>>=20 >>> Needless to say this is a harrowing story. The story has a happy = ending but harrowing none the less. When listening to the audio, you = forget how serious the situation is because he is so calm. The pilot is = a friend of mine and I happened to call him 30 minutes after he landed = and he recounted the tale to me. He told me the scariest part was not = when the engine quit but when he was forced to descend into dark ugly = IMC/ and Icing conditions with a dead engine. Oh, over the mountains! = He got icing on the way up and his new deicing system was working = perfectly. He knew he would most likely get it on the way down as well, = this time with a dead engine and potentially little power to run the = deice system.=20 >>> Upon landing, it was discovered that a turbo hose blew off in climb = and when that happened because of the sudden loss of boost, it = completely flooded the engine fouling the plugs. >>>=20 >>> Mark did an excellent job getting the airplane and himself down in = one piece. >>> =20 >>> He travels the country weekly and spends around 3 days a week = traveling this this airplane. His experience and proficiency definitely = shows in this situation... >>>=20 >>> Above is part A of the transcript. You will see part B when the = video ends... >>>=20 >>> Nice work under pressure... >>>=20 >>> Randy Snarr >>> N694RS >>>=20 >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DnluZTFu2tCQ >>>=20 >>=20 >> =3D >=20 --Apple-Mail-76-900123577 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii I = have a Continental in my IVP with the linked turbo = system.

Climbing over Mt. Ranier at 17k feet, one of = the turbo hoses blew off. I didn't know that at the time.  All I = knew is that I was climbing over Ranier (a 14,500 foot volcano with no = landing areas near by) and was thrown forward in the seat as my manifold = pressure went from 37 inches to 22.

I initially = thought I had lost an engine, but it was still running.  But the = reduction in manifold pressure was dramatic.  And frightening. =  I probably said a bad word or two (glad Mom wasn't with me) and = may have crapped myself as well, not sure.

I = decided to make like United or Delta and try to glide into SeaTac. =  So I turned toward SeaTac and was about to call to enter their = class B and have them clear the runway, but about 12k feet, the engine = started feeling much happier.  I returned to Paine without = incident.

A de-cowling revealed the slipped = hose.  It only came off about 1/4th inch, but that obviously was = enough to lose all turbo boost.  I slipped the hose back on and = tightened the hell out of it, re-safety wired it, and have flown happily = every since.

John Hafen
IVP = 413AJ

On Sep 10, 2010, at 12:18 PM, Colyn Case = wrote:

I always wondered why = Continental did it that way (tying the turbo outputs together).   = Now i know.
Sounds like this installation had a single fuel control = but separate turbo systems, implying that if one of the turbo systems = has a problem, there is no mixture that will make the whole engine = happy.


On Sep 9, 2010, at 8:07 = PM, cfi@instructor.net = wrote:

The installation on this Legacy is = different than most.  It uses a manual wastegate and the left and = right turbos aren't tied together.  At least that's the way it was = when it was originally built.  It's also a Lycoming. 

Ron




-----Original Message-----
From: Colyn Case <colyncase@earthlink.net> To: lml@lancaironline.net
= Sent: Thu, Sep 9, 2010 7:53 am
Subject: [LML] Re: Engine failure ATC Transcript Super Legacy Twin Turbo = TSIO 580

notwithstanding Charlies' comments I don't understand exactly what = happened to 3,4,6.   The video says Mark tried moving the mixture = both directions with no success.   I'm not understanding why that = didn't help...unless half the cylinders have reduced pressure and other = half have higher pressure so there is not optimal mixture.   Also = why 3,4,6 and not 2,4,6.   Was this a Lycoming?  also, also, = why did the plugs foul so quickly?

on a Continental the turbo outputs are merged so that if you lose, = e.g. one hose, you would lose pressure on all cylinders.   at least = then all cylinders face the same mixture situation.

anyway, just trying to figure out how you would manage this on a = continental.

On Sep 8, 2010, at 11:48 AM, randy snarr wrote:

All,
Below is a link to a youtube video which contains a transcript of a = Legacy pilot who departed Redmond, OR  on an IFR flight plan. He = climbs IMC to his assigned altitude at 21,000 and at 20,000 there is a = big BANG!! and the engine quits.
I only hope I would handle the same situation half as well...

Needless to say this is a harrowing story. The story has a happy ending = but harrowing none the less. When listening to the audio, you forget how = serious the situation is because he is so calm. The pilot is a friend of = mine and I happened to call him 30 minutes after he landed and he = recounted the tale to me. He told me the scariest part was not when the = engine quit but when he was forced to descend into dark ugly IMC/ and = Icing conditions with a dead engine. Oh, over the mountains!  He = got icing on the way up and his new deicing system was working perfectly. He knew he would most likely get it on the way down = as well, this time with a dead engine and potentially little power to = run the deice system.
Upon landing, it was discovered that a turbo hose blew off in climb and = when that happened because of the sudden loss of boost, it completely = flooded the engine fouling the plugs.

Mark did an excellent job getting the airplane and himself down in one = piece.
 
He travels the country weekly and spends around 3 days a week traveling = this this airplane. His experience and proficiency definitely shows in = this situation...

Above is part A of the transcript. You will see part B when the video = ends...

Nice work under pressure...

Randy Snarr
N694RS

http://www.youtube.c= om/watch?v=3DnluZTFu2tCQ


=3D
=


= --Apple-Mail-76-900123577--