X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2010 16:10:56 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([209.86.89.70] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.9) with ESMTP id 4459630 for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 08 Sep 2010 13:55:24 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.86.89.70; envelope-from=colyncase@earthlink.net DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=miOqO+ahwxtCt2nv5RmVnhrHLQVQiqKo8B5VkHsTrKV/NDbO/1iVzWpCbBCWkg80; h=Received:From:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:To:References:Message-Id:X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [216.57.118.85] (helo=[192.168.1.100]) by elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1OtOr9-0003O8-Ku for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 08 Sep 2010 13:54:47 -0400 From: Colyn Case Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1078) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-30-718609031 Subject: Re: [LML] Re: ThermaWing Deice installed on Lacair IVP (N213LB) X-Original-Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 13:54:46 -0400 In-Reply-To: X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" References: X-Original-Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1078) X-ELNK-Trace: 63d5d3452847f8b1d6dd28457998182d7e972de0d01da940c766997a0801348f6f66413006f04a44350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 216.57.118.85 --Apple-Mail-30-718609031 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Bob, this is not inconsistent with other reports I have heard. I = wonder if Kelly will design an idler/tensioner pulley so that you don't = have to so much side load on the starter adapter. ....or was that not = the problem? Colyn On Sep 8, 2010, at 11:48 AM, Bob Rickard wrote: > Nothing at all against Mark and the gang at RDD, but I had the = thermawing system DE-modded from my aircraft. 3 main problems- one, it = never worked reliably. I even took the airplane and left it with them = for a weekend and it only worked once. Secondly, even if the system = works, it does not protect the air intake (critical for = MAP/pressurization) and you cant stay up high even with clean wings. = Third, and most importantly, the starter drive adapter and pulley = mounted on the back side of the motor (TSIO 550E) that is used to power = the system or the ac compressor (we tried both configurations) would not = last long before failing. In the year and a half the system was on my = airplane we went thru 3 starter drive adapters. Once, on a night flight = from Phoenix to St. Louis, the adapter failed and oil started leaking = profusely. I had no cockpit indications. Luckily, it failed near = landing because I only lost about a quart in flight and another on the = ground. But if it had failed a couple of hours earlier in the = flight.....you can imagine the rest. In the end, I decided I needed a = good starter drive adapter ALL of the time, and deice protection about = 2% of the time, or never if I make good airmanship decisions. Not to = mention I got about 8-15 knots back in airspeed depending on cruise alt. >=20 > Maybe I just had a bad batch of starter drive adapters, maybe not. = But the TCM guys will blame the deice system, and the deice boys will = say it's a bad design on the motor side. Bottom line is- you lose = either way. >=20 > If you are putting the system on a different motor, this may be = irrelevant information, but talk thru this topic when deciding to mount = something on the back of a 550.=20 >=20 > Having said all of this, when the system did work ( I actually saw it = 2 times in 18 months), it certainly rid the leading edges of ice....=20 >=20 > Bob Rickard > IV-P N619SJ=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Sep 7, 2010, at 6:48 PM, Jack Cowell wrote: >=20 >> Mark Mahnke and his crew in Redmond installed the Therma-Wing system = on my IVP several years ago. After some teething problems, its function = as a get-out-of-trouble device has worked as claimed. Article on the = system and installation in KitPlanes in 2008. >> =20 >>=20 >> =20 >> On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 10:48 AM, Jeffrey Liegner, MD = wrote: >>=20 >> I saw a small blurb in AOPA magazine (Aug 2010, p 14) about the Kelly = Aerospace ThermaWing installed onto a Lancair IVP, N213LB. >>=20 >> http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/N213LB.html >>=20 >> http://www.kellyaerospace.com/thermawing.html >>=20 >> Anyone have details to share? >>=20 >> Jeff L >> New Jersey >> LIVP >>=20 >>=20 >> http://www.kellyaerospace.com/faq_KATS.html >>=20 >> -- >> For archives and unsub = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html >>=20 --Apple-Mail-30-718609031 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Bob, = this is not inconsistent with other reports I have heard.   I = wonder if Kelly will design an idler/tensioner pulley so that you don't = have to so much side load on the starter adapter.    ....or = was that not the = problem?

Colyn


O= n Sep 8, 2010, at 11:48 AM, Bob Rickard wrote:

Nothing at all against Mark and the gang at = RDD, but I had the thermawing system DE-modded from my aircraft.  3 = main problems- one, it never worked reliably.  I even took the = airplane and left it with them for a weekend and it only worked once. =  Secondly, even if the system works, it does not protect the air = intake (critical for MAP/pressurization) and you cant stay up high even = with clean wings.  Third, and most importantly, the starter drive = adapter and pulley mounted on the back side of the motor (TSIO 550E) = that is used to power the system or the ac compressor (we tried both = configurations) would not last long before failing.  In the year = and a half the system was on my airplane we went thru 3 starter drive = adapters.  Once, on a night flight from Phoenix to St. Louis, the = adapter failed and oil started leaking profusely.  I had no cockpit = indications.  Luckily, it failed near landing because I only lost = about a quart in flight and another on the ground.  But if it had = failed a couple of hours earlier in the flight.....you can imagine the = rest.  In the end, I decided I needed a good starter drive adapter = ALL of the time, and deice protection about 2% of the time, or never if = I make good airmanship decisions.  Not to mention I got about 8-15 = knots back in airspeed depending on cruise = alt.

Maybe I just had a bad batch of starter = drive adapters, maybe not.  But the TCM guys will blame the deice = system, and the deice boys will say it's a bad design on the motor side. =  Bottom line is- you lose either way.

If = you are putting the system on a different motor, this may be irrelevant = information, but talk thru this topic when deciding to mount something = on the back of a 550. 

Having said all of = this, when the system did work ( I actually saw it 2 times in 18 = months), it certainly rid the leading edges of = ice.... 

Bob Rickard
IV-P =  N619SJ 



On Sep 7, 2010, at 6:48 PM, = Jack Cowell <jfcowell@gmail.com> = wrote:

Mark = Mahnke and his crew in Redmond installed the Therma-Wing system on my = IVP several years ago. After some teething problems, its function as a = get-out-of-trouble device has worked as claimed.  Article on = the system and installation in KitPlanes in 2008.
 

 
On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 10:48 AM, Jeffrey = Liegner, MD <liegner@embarqmail.com> wrote:

I saw a small blurb = in AOPA magazine (Aug 2010, p 14) about the Kelly Aerospace ThermaWing = installed onto a Lancair IVP, N213LB.

http://www.airpo= rt-data.com/aircraft/N213LB.html

http://www.kellyaer= ospace.com/thermawing.html

Anyone have details to share?

Jeff L
New = Jersey
LIVP


http://www.kellyaeros= pace.com/faq_KATS.html

--
For archives and unsub http://mail.= lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html
=

= --Apple-Mail-30-718609031--