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From: randy snarr <randylsnarr@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [LML] Re: LII Resale Agreement
In-Reply-To: <list-4397275@logan.com>
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These are all good points.
Unfortunately, the actions of a few (some of which are no longer with us) i=
s driving this. I don't know the current regime at Lancair but I would imag=
ine they would prefer to stay out of the training/inspection business.
I believe they are forced into this to improve the safety record of the fle=
et which we all benefit from.
I want the Lancair name to represent sleek high performance personal aircra=
ft not dangerous sleek high performance personal aircraft...

Which would you rather have, modest standards from Lancair or the standards=
 that would come from the FAA if we don't get off of their radar...

Randy Snarr=20
N694RS
235/320

--- On Sun, 7/18/10, Douglas Johnson <lancair1@bellsouth.net> wrote:

From: Douglas Johnson <lancair1@bellsouth.net>
Subject: [LML] Re: LII Resale Agreement
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Date: Sunday, July 18, 2010, 7:52 AM

=0ATo that point,=C2=A0the requirement by Lancair for an insurance inspecti=
on by their approved=C2=A0parties, and training by parties=C2=A0approved by=
 them, actually INCREASES their liability exposure, should a mishap subsequ=
ently occur. They become much more than a supplier of components. I would i=
magine tort attorneys would be salivating over these clauses.
=C2=A0Douglas W. Johnson MD, FACR
=0A
=0A
=0A=0A=0AFrom: Stan Fields <sdfields@austin.rr.com>
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Sent: Sun, July 18, 2010 6:35:49 AM
Subject: [LML] Re: LII Resale Agreement

=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AI agree with Mark that the $300 transfer fee credit is a =
good way to ensure that Lancair can keep and maintain accurate aircraft and=
 customer records. I also agree with Dennis that Lancair oversteps it=E2=80=
=99s role as manufacturer in tying training and aircraft inspection require=
ments in order to get or buy parts and support. I appreciate Lancair=E2=80=
=99s efforts in finding=C2=A0 and endorsing training and inspection service=
s. I intend to avail myself of both but on a volunteer basis. =0A=C2=A0=0AL=
ancair has made it clear that their role as manufacturer is limited to buil=
ding components, not airplanes, and that builders assume complete responsib=
ility for the purpose we choose to their components. I=E2=80=99m ok with th=
at. Lancair assumes no responsibility for the =E2=80=9Cairplane=E2=80=9D no=
r should it create a mandatory responsibility for its inspection or trainin=
g.=0A=C2=A0=0AStan Fields=0A=C2=A0=0A=0A=0AFrom: Lancair Mailing List [mail=
to:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Dennis Johnson
Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2010 6:44 PM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] LII Resale Agreement=0A=C2=A0=0A=0AI agree with Mark that La=
ncair's decision to apply the $300 transfer fee to a credit for parts purch=
ases is a good move.=C2=A0 I thank the new owner for that!=C2=A0 However, i=
n my opinion the $300 was never an issue.=C2=A0 The following is a quote fr=
om their resale agreement:=0A=0A=C2=A0=0A=0AFurther, the new purchaser of a=
 flying Lancair aircraft or an uncompleted kit, and prior to the
aircraft being transferred, must agree to have either flying Lancair aircra=
ft or upon first flight of an
uncompleted kit inspected by our insurance inspection team. The new purchas=
er must also agree to
participate in any Lancair endorsed training program.=0A=0A=C2=A0=0A=0AThes=
e two requirements are, it seems to me, potentially very expensive.=C2=A0 A=
n inspection by Lancair's "insurance inspection team" could be thousands of=
 dollars.=C2=A0 The paragraph is awkwardly worded.=C2=A0 It says the buyer =
must agree to have the inspection, but it doesn't say the inspection has to=
 be completed and it doesn't say the airplane has to pass the inspection.=
=C2=A0 =0A=0A=C2=A0=0A=0AOne of the benefits of building my own experimenta=
l airplane is the privilege of using materials and techniques of my own cho=
osing, with nobody (except the FAA, sort of) looking over my shoulder.=C2=
=A0 Although I'm confident=C2=A0my relatively small modifications from the =
official plans would be acceptable to Lancair, there's always the possibili=
ty that some future Lancair owner (we're now on the third since I've been b=
uilding) could decide any changes from the plans, no matter how insignifica=
nt, must be "corrected" before allowing the new purchaser to register the a=
irplane.=C2=A0 I'm not comfortable giving up that much power to Lancair.=C2=
=A0=C2=A0It's my airplane, not theirs.=C2=A0 =0A=0A=C2=A0=0A=0AThe resale a=
greement also says that the purchaser "must also agree to participate in an=
y Lancair endorsed training program."=C2=A0 Holy moly, that's a requirement=
 limited only by the imagination of Lancair.=C2=A0A new owner could also de=
cide, for some=C2=A0insurance purpose perhaps,=C2=A0that the "Lancair endor=
sed training program" would require=C2=A0who knows how many=C2=A0hours in a=
 Lancair, completed at Redmond.=C2=A0 =0A=0A=C2=A0=0A=0AThe inspection requ=
irement, particularly if it=C2=A0includes a requirement that the inspection=
 must be "passed," and the=C2=A0unbounded training requirement, could=C2=A0=
cost a seller thousands of dollars, and possibly tens of thousands.=C2=A0 A=
nd I think the cost will fall on the seller,=C2=A0even if the purchaser is =
the=C2=A0one who writes the check.=0A=0A=C2=A0=0A=0ADennis=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 =0A=0A=0A      
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<table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0" ><tr><td valign=3D"=
top" style=3D"font: inherit;">These are all good points.<br>Unfortunately, =
the actions of a few (some of which are no longer with us) is driving this.=
 I don't know the current regime at Lancair but I would imagine they would =
prefer to stay out of the training/inspection business.<br>I believe they a=
re forced into this to improve the safety record of the fleet which we all =
benefit from.<br>I want the Lancair name to represent sleek high performanc=
e personal aircraft not dangerous sleek high performance personal aircraft.=
..<br><br>Which would you rather have, modest standards from Lancair or the=
 standards that would come from the FAA if we don't get off of their radar.=
..<br><br>Randy Snarr <br>N694RS<br>235/320<br><br>--- On <b>Sun, 7/18/10, =
Douglas Johnson <i>&lt;lancair1@bellsouth.net&gt;</i></b> wrote:<br><blockq=
uote style=3D"border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px;
 padding-left: 5px;"><br>From: Douglas Johnson &lt;lancair1@bellsouth.net&g=
t;<br>Subject: [LML] Re: LII Resale Agreement<br>To: lml@lancaironline.net<=
br>Date: Sunday, July 18, 2010, 7:52 AM<br><br><div id=3D"yiv1536962301"><s=
tyle type=3D"text/css"><!--#yiv1536962301 DIV {margin:0px;}--></style><div =
style=3D"font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt=
;"><div></div>=0A<div>To that point,&nbsp;the requirement by Lancair for an=
 insurance inspection by their approved&nbsp;parties, and training by parti=
es&nbsp;approved by them, actually INCREASES their liability exposure, shou=
ld a mishap subsequently occur. They become much more than a supplier of co=
mponents. I would imagine tort attorneys would be salivating over these cla=
uses.<br>&nbsp;</div>Douglas W. Johnson MD, FACR<br>=0A<div><br></div>=0A<d=
iv style=3D"font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 1=
2pt;"><br>=0A<div style=3D"font-family: times new roman,new york,times,seri=
f; font-size: 12pt;"><font face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2">=0A<hr size=3D"1">=0A=
<b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Stan Fields &lt;sdfi=
elds@austin.rr.com&gt;<br><b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">To:</span><=
/b> lml@lancaironline.net<br><b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Sent:</s=
pan></b> Sun, July 18, 2010 6:35:49 AM<br><b><span style=3D"font-weight: bo=
ld;">Subject:</span></b> [LML] Re: LII Resale Agreement<br></font><br>=0A<s=
tyle>=0A<!--=0A=0A#yiv1536962301 filtered {font-family:"Cambria Math";panos=
e-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}=0A#yiv1536962301 filtered {font-family:Calibri;pa=
nose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}=0A#yiv1536962301 filtered {font-family:Tahoma=
;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}=0A=0A#yiv1536962301 p.MsoNormal, #yiv15369=
62301 li.MsoNormal, #yiv1536962301 div.MsoNormal=0A=09{margin:0in;margin-bo=
ttom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"serif";}=0A#yiv1536962301 a:link=
, #yiv1536962301 span.MsoHyperlink=0A=09{color:blue;text-decoration:underli=
ne;}=0A#yiv1536962301 a:visited, #yiv1536962301 span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed=
=0A=09{color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}=0A#yiv1536962301 span.Email=
Style17=0A=09{font-family:"sans-serif";color:#1F497D;}=0A#yiv1536962301 .Ms=
oChpDefault=0A=09{font-size:10.0pt;}=0A#yiv1536962301 filtered {margin:1.0i=
n 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}=0A#yiv1536962301 div.Section1=0A=09{}=0A-->=0A</style=
>=0A=0A<div class=3D"Section1">=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"fon=
t-family: 'sans-serif'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">I agree =
with Mark that the $300 transfer fee credit is a good way to ensure that La=
ncair can keep and maintain accurate aircraft and customer records. I also =
agree with Dennis that Lancair oversteps it=E2=80=99s role as manufacturer =
in tying training and aircraft inspection requirements in order to get or b=
uy parts and support. I appreciate Lancair=E2=80=99s efforts in finding&nbs=
p; and endorsing training and inspection services. I intend to avail myself=
 of both but on a volunteer basis. </span></p>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><sp=
an style=3D"font-family: 'sans-serif'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: =
11pt;">&nbsp;</span></p>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-famil=
y: 'sans-serif'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">Lancair has mad=
e it clear that their role as manufacturer is limited to building component=
s, not airplanes, and that builders assume complete responsibility for the =
purpose we choose to their components. I=E2=80=99m ok with that. Lancair as=
sumes no responsibility for the =E2=80=9Cairplane=E2=80=9D nor should it cr=
eate a mandatory responsibility for its inspection or training.</span></p>=
=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: 'sans-serif'; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">&nbsp;</span></p>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNorm=
al"><span style=3D"font-family: 'sans-serif'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font=
-size: 11pt;">Stan Fields</span></p>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=
=3D"font-family: 'sans-serif'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;">&=
nbsp;</span></p>=0A<div>=0A<div style=3D"border-style: solid none none; bor=
der-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; bord=
er-width: 1pt medium medium; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">=0A<p class=3D"MsoNorma=
l"><b><span style=3D"font-family: 'sans-serif'; font-size: 10pt;">From:</sp=
an></b><span style=3D"font-family: 'sans-serif'; font-size: 10pt;"> Lancair=
 Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Dennis Joh=
nson<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, July 17, 2010 6:44 PM<br><b>To:</b> lml@lanc=
aironline.net<br><b>Subject:</b> [LML] LII Resale Agreement</span></p></div=
></div>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>=0A<div>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal=
">I agree with Mark that Lancair's decision to apply the $300 transfer fee =
to a credit for parts purchases is a good move.&nbsp; I thank the new owner=
 for that!&nbsp; However, in my opinion the $300 was never an issue.&nbsp; =
The following is a quote from their resale agreement:</p></div>=0A<div>=0A<=
p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p></div>=0A<div>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><sp=
an style=3D"color: blue;">Further, the new purchaser of a flying Lancair ai=
rcraft or an uncompleted kit, and prior to the<br>aircraft being transferre=
d, must agree to have either flying Lancair aircraft or upon first flight o=
f an<br>uncompleted kit inspected by our insurance inspection team. The new=
 purchaser must also agree to<br>participate in any Lancair endorsed traini=
ng program.</span></p></div>=0A<div>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p></d=
iv>=0A<div>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal">These two requirements are, it seems t=
o me, potentially very expensive.&nbsp; An inspection by Lancair's "insuran=
ce inspection team" could be thousands of dollars.&nbsp; The paragraph is a=
wkwardly worded.&nbsp; It says the buyer must agree to have the inspection,=
 but it doesn't say the inspection has to be completed and it doesn't say t=
he airplane has to pass the inspection.&nbsp; </p></div>=0A<div>=0A<p class=
=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p></div>=0A<div>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal">One of the=
 benefits of building my own experimental airplane is the privilege of usin=
g materials and techniques of my own choosing, with nobody (except the FAA,=
 sort of) looking over my shoulder.&nbsp; Although I'm confident&nbsp;my re=
latively small modifications from the official plans would be acceptable to=
 Lancair, there's always the possibility that some future Lancair owner (we=
're now on the third since I've been building) could decide any changes fro=
m the plans, no matter how insignificant, must be "corrected" before allowi=
ng the new purchaser to register the airplane.&nbsp; I'm not comfortable gi=
ving up that much power to Lancair.&nbsp;&nbsp;It's my airplane, not theirs=
.&nbsp; </p></div>=0A<div>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p></div>=0A<div=
>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The resale agreement also says that the purchase=
r "must also agree to participate in any Lancair endorsed training program.=
"&nbsp; Holy moly, that's a requirement limited only by the imagination of =
Lancair.&nbsp;A new owner could also decide, for some&nbsp;insurance purpos=
e perhaps,&nbsp;that the "Lancair endorsed training program" would require&=
nbsp;who knows how many&nbsp;hours in a Lancair, completed at Redmond.&nbsp=
; </p></div>=0A<div>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p></div>=0A<div>=0A<p=
 class=3D"MsoNormal">The inspection requirement, particularly if it&nbsp;in=
cludes a requirement that the inspection must be "passed," and the&nbsp;unb=
ounded training requirement, could&nbsp;cost a seller thousands of dollars,=
 and possibly tens of thousands.&nbsp; And I think the cost will fall on th=
e seller,&nbsp;even if the purchaser is the&nbsp;one who writes the check.<=
/p></div>=0A<div>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p></div>=0A<div>=0A<p cl=
ass=3D"MsoNormal">Dennis&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </p></div></div></div></div></di=
v></div></blockquote></td></tr></table><br>=0A=0A      
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