X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 06:25:08 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imr-mb01.mx.aol.com ([64.12.207.164] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.8) with ESMTP id 4384208 for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 16:52:36 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.207.164; envelope-from=Sky2high@aol.com Received: from imo-da02.mx.aol.com (imo-da02.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.200]) by imr-mb01.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o67KpjPP030554 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 16:51:45 -0400 Received: from Sky2high@aol.com by imo-da02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id q.d85.ee39863 (34988) for ; Wed, 7 Jul 2010 16:51:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from magic-m22.mail.aol.com (magic-m22.mail.aol.com [172.20.22.195]) by cia-db01.mx.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIADB011-88ac4c34e8db18c; Wed, 07 Jul 2010 16:51:39 -0400 From: Sky2high@aol.com X-Original-Message-ID: <19fd.1fe28553.396642db@aol.com> X-Original-Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 16:51:39 EDT Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Thoughts on a 320 partial build X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_19fd.1fe28553.396642db_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 9.5 sub 155 X-AOL-ORIG-IP: 67.175.87.113 X-AOL-IP: 172.20.22.195 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: Sky2high@aol.com --part1_19fd.1fe28553.396642db_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Danny, _http://leadingedgeaircraft.com/tk5specs.htm_ (http://leadingedgeaircraft.com/tk5specs.htm) Grayhawk In a message dated 7/7/2010 2:57:41 P.M. Central Daylight Time, dannymiller@wowway.com writes: Bill, You bring up some very good points to consider. By my estimate, I'd consider this a/c about 50%. But this gentleman counts only the time he spends actually working on it, nothing for prep, set up or any research times. I haven't yet looked at the engine log books so I don't know who overhauled it. That will also help set an offer price as will the prop AD. Radios & DME I'll most likely sell it on ebay and then upgrade to a Kings. I'm still old school (dual navcoms & DME) because my last log book entry was in 1995 and have never had the pleasure of flying with the latest technologies. That's something I need to research. The Mountain Scope is a GPS moving map display; seemed like a nice toy but can't be used for navigation. Since I'm in an incognito living arrangement with very few distractions (no family) I can work on it uninterrupted and often. It's the MkII tail. Engine mount...not sure but another good question to ask. The gear has the donuts so I'll need to learn more about the Ong's deboingers. If anybody has some info on these please send it my way. The header tank is closed out and needs to be pressure tested, there's no sight gage and I don't know about the switches yet. The canopy, although not yet attached, is provisioned for front hinges. Danny On the prowl for the right 320/360 project From: "Bill N5ZQ" Sender: Subject: RE: [LML] Thoughts on a 320 partial build Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2010 21:04:59 -0400 To: lml@lancaironline.net Danny, I checked out a partial build today claimed to be about 80% complete (& 80% to go). It's a fast build kit; wings are still open, top panels of the center section still open This doesn't sound like anywhere near 80% to me. That doesn't mean that it's not a good buy, just that there's still an awful lot of work left to do. , not wired for auto pilot yet but east to get at, good. removable header tank for easy access, very good rudder pedals need to be replaced with adjustable, at this stage, changing out the rudder pedals would not be a huge project and, in my opinion, the adjustable rudders are far superior not just because they're adjustable but because they require a much narrower subfloor. The subfloor then can be lowered making for more shin room under the panel and a more comfortable leg position for most folks. needs interior, fuel lines, magnetos (I'll go with electronic), yes, consider P-Mags gear door installation, elevator trim wiring, paint and some misc. parts, 0 time overhauled O-320 including Rotec Throttle Body Injection, Hmmm, zero timed means that it was rebuilt by Lycoming in Williamsport, PA. They put a Rotec Throttle Body on it???? Who really did the overhaul? As an A&P, you know that there can be vast differences between a "shade tree" overhaul and a factory or other reputable shop overhaul. 1st overhaul? New or overhauled cylinders? New camshaft? prop gov, new fuel pump, 0 time Hartzell HC-82VL-1 prop with spinner (has an AD on the shank that needs to be inspected (cost unknown), Obviously you'll check this out before making an offer. dual Narco digital comms, Narco 890 DME, Narco transponder, 7" TFT touch screen running Mountain Scope, Narco Nav 11, audio panel with intercom, full flight instruments, engine instruments and fuel management/ Sounds a little like these may be some older radios. Do you really want a DME today? What is a Mountain Scope? If this is Blue Mountain...lots of guys have had a bunch of trouble with these. What do you mean by "fuel management"? gear panel, ailerons still open, I'd estimate less than 20 degrees swing on the rudder but he said the vertical fin trailing edge can be trimmed to adjust, Make damn sure that the rudder travel restrictions are just due to needing a little skin trimming. This is an important one. left rear window still out for easy access. good, easy to put in later All the workmanship appears to be pretty good and I have a lot of composite experience so I think can judge it. Excellent, good workmanship is way more important than equipment, etc. In my opinion I think it's probably a good winter project to finish it. Yep, the only question is how many winters :-) Any thoughts you may have on what else to look for/at would be appreciated. Does it have small or MKII tail? As you have seen, there is plenty of opinion on both sides of this question. As you know, I prefer the small tail but even I wouldn't pass up an otherwise good deal just because it had a big tail. On the other hand, I wouldn't pay a dime more for a big tail. Does it have the long engine mount. The original small mount pushed the accessory case right up to, and in some cased through, the firewall (remember the "dog dish" for the governor?) The long mounts are getting pretty hard to find. I'd consider the long mount to be a strong positive. Does it have the "Ong's deboingers"? The original rubber doughnuts are quite hard and provide very little shock absorption. I'm not sure if Tim is still making the deboingers, anybody out there know? Is the header tank closed out yet? If so, were provisions built in for float switches so that you can fabricate an automatic system to keep the header between full and almost full without pilot intervention? An automatic system is very easy IF you have the float switches built in. If closed, run a pressure test on it (will it hold 1 psi overnight?) Provisions for sight gauge? Forward hinged canopy? This seems to be the preferred configuration and offers several advantages. I'm sure that you'll get many more hints and suggestions from the members of this august body, but these are the few that I could think of. Bill Harrelson N5ZQ 320 1,800 hrs N6ZQ IV under construction Subscribe: Feed , Digest , Index . Unsubscribe Mail to ListMaster -- For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html --part1_19fd.1fe28553.396642db_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Danny,
 
 
Grayhawk
 
In a message dated 7/7/2010 2:57:41 P.M. Central Daylight Time,=20 dannymiller@wowway.com writes:
Bill,
You bring up some very good points= to consider.  By=20 my estimate, I'd
consider this a/c about 50%.  But this gentlema= n=20 counts only the time he
spends actually working on it, nothing for pr= ep,=20 set up or any research
times.

I haven't yet looked at the engi= ne log=20 books so I don't know who overhauled
it.  That will also help se= t an=20 offer price as will the prop AD.  Radios &
DME I'll most lik= ely=20 sell it on ebay and then upgrade to a Kings.  I'm still
old scho= ol=20 (dual navcoms & DME) because my last log book entry was in 1995
a= nd=20 have never had the pleasure of flying with the latest technologies.
T= hat's=20 something I need to research.  The Mountain Scope is a GPS moving= =20 map
display; seemed like a nice toy but can't be used for navigation.=  =20 Since I'm
in an incognito living arrangement with very few distractio= ns (no=20 family) I
can work on it uninterrupted and often.  It's the MkII= =20 tail.  Engine
mount...not sure but another good question to ask.=  =20 The gear has the donuts
so I'll need to learn more about the Ong's=20 deboingers.  If anybody has some
info on these please send it my= =20 way.  The header tank is closed out and
needs to be pressure tes= ted,=20 there's no sight gage and I don't know about
the switches yet. = The=20 canopy, although not yet attached, is provisioned for
front=20 hinges.

Danny
On the prowl for the right 320/360=20 project


From:
"Bill N5ZQ"=20 <n5zq@verizon.net>

Sender:
<marv@lancaironline.net>= ;

Subject:
RE:=20 [LML] Thoughts on a 320 partial build

Date:
Mon, 05 Jul 2010= =20 21:04:59=20 -0400

To:
lml@lancaironline.net


<http://mail.lan= caironline.net:81/lists/lml/Message/55298-H.txt> =20

<http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/Message/55298-P.t= xt> =20

   
Danny,


I checked out a partial buil= d=20 today claimed to be about 80% complete (& 80%
to go).  It's= a fast=20 build kit; wings are still open, top panels of the
center section sti= ll=20 open

This doesn't sound like anywhere near 80% to me. That doesn'= t mean=20 that it's
not a good buy,  just that there's still an awful lot= of=20 work left to do.


, not wired for auto pilot yet but east to= get=20 at,        good.

removable header tank for ea= sy=20 access,     very good
rudder pedals need to be replace= d with=20 adjustable,   at this stage,
changing out the rudder pedals= would=20 not be a huge project and, in my
opinion, the adjustable rudders are= far=20 superior not just because they're
adjustable but because they require= a=20 much narrower subfloor. The subfloor
then can be lowered making for= more=20 shin room under the panel and a more
comfortable leg position for mos= t=20 folks.
needs interior, fuel lines, magnetos (I'll go with=20 electronic),  yes,
consider P-Mags
gear door installation, el= evator=20 trim wiring, paint and some
misc. parts, 0 time overhauled O-320 incl= uding=20 Rotec Throttle Body
Injection,   Hmmm, zero timed means tha= t it=20 was rebuilt by Lycoming in
Williamsport, PA. They put a Rotec Throttl= e Body=20 on it????  Who really did
the overhaul? As an A&P, you know= that=20 there can be vast differences between
a "shade tree" overhaul and a= factory=20 or other reputable shop overhaul. 1st
overhaul? New or overhauled=20 cylinders?  New camshaft?
prop gov, new fuel pump, 0 time Hartze= ll=20 HC-82VL-1 prop with
spinner (has an AD on the shank that needs to be= =20 inspected (cost unknown),
Obviously you'll check this out before maki= ng an=20 offer.
dual Narco digital comms, Narco 890 DME, Narco transponder, 7"= TFT=20 touch
screen running Mountain Scope, Narco Nav 11, audio panel with= =20 intercom, full
flight instruments, engine instruments and fuel=20 management/  Sounds a little
like these may be some older=20 radios.  Do you really want a DME today? What
is a Mountain Scop= e? If=20 this is Blue Mountain...lots of guys have had a
bunch of trouble with= =20 these. What do you mean by "fuel management"?
gear panel,
ailerons= still=20 open, I'd estimate less than 20 degrees swing on the rudder
but he sa= id the=20 vertical fin trailing edge can be trimmed to adjust,  Make
damn= sure=20 that the rudder travel restrictions are just due to needing a
little= skin=20 trimming. This is an important one.
left
rear window still out for= easy=20 access.  good, easy to put in later
All the workmanship appears= to=20 be
pretty good and I have a lot of composite experience so I think ca= n=20 judge
it.  Excellent, good workmanship is way more important tha= n=20 equipment, etc.
In my opinion I think it's probably a good winter pro= ject=20 to finish it. Yep,
the only question is how many winters :-)

A= ny=20 thoughts you may have on what else to look for/at would be=20 appreciated.
Does it have small or MKII tail? As you have seen, there= is=20 plenty of
opinion on both sides of this question. As you know, I pref= er the=20 small tail
but even I wouldn't pass up an otherwise good deal just be= cause=20 it had a big
tail. On the other hand, I wouldn't pay a dime more for= a big=20 tail.
Does it have the long engine mount. The original small mount pu= shed=20 the
accessory case right up to, and in some cased through, the=20 firewall
(remember the "dog dish" for the governor?) The long mounts= are=20 getting
pretty hard to find. I'd consider the long mount to be a stro= ng=20 positive.
Does it have the "Ong's deboingers"? The original rubber=20 doughnuts are quite
hard and provide very little shock absorption. I'= m not=20 sure if Tim is still
making the deboingers, anybody out there know?Is=20 the header tank closed out yet? If so, were provisions built in for=20 float
switches so that you can fabricate an automatic system to keep= the=20 header
between full and almost full without pilot intervention? An=20 automatic system
is very easy IF you have the float switches built=20 in.  If closed, run a
pressure test on it (will it hold 1 psi=20 overnight?) Provisions for sight
gauge?
Forward hinged canopy? Thi= s=20 seems to be the preferred configuration and
offers several=20 advantages.

I'm sure that you'll get many more hints and suggesti= ons=20 from the members of
this august body, but these are the few that I co= uld=20 think of.

Bill Harrelson
N5ZQ 320 1,800 hrs
N6ZQ  IV= under=20 construction









   =20

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