X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 06:23:15 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from smtp126.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com ([69.147.65.185] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.4) with SMTP id 4179308 for lml@lancaironline.net; Fri, 26 Mar 2010 00:09:34 -0400 Received-SPF: neutral receiver=logan.com; client-ip=69.147.65.185; envelope-from=craig@skybolt.net Received: (qmail 33090 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2010 04:08:58 -0000 Received: from adsl-76-208-153-87.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net (craig@76.208.153.87 with login) by smtp126.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Mar 2010 21:08:57 -0700 PDT X-Yahoo-SMTP: sYxhbm.swBCvFXZ5XcsZWT3w2320TvMaw69nMUmH X-YMail-OSG: c4ZKL_QVM1myjTPeffbTJpn85dHCWa9.Hde1q8n0zV_R.rMsS6.UnWENLArO.1MWajz06gjZudCQLtTcKXGyOTxwJE0P2Xeca6AJYPUjkiOjrZh_mVpeAi1yd19GoWk8FE86ngi3ksubsegC3tOket4_wAgueHjejAemOAkULuB_EguHnLw6SqsblLWEAYLLP6IipW0k8EXFhN73EBiKs_KK8qIdFGfBftubWSLTlQHQ9vKBz_Ad0BdotESXhZ_5BEOPMiDNImFnfWL77jM_YeX8AQjUyg.4XNB0LCuAd95dYUTHF2KmZ_t6WuukPbtvFo9PAFbD1xU8.E271exh.Bo- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 From: "Craig Schulze" X-Original-To: X-Original-Cc: Subject: X-Original-Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 21:08:55 -0700 X-Original-Message-ID: <013701cacc9a$0d97c300$28c74900$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0138_01CACC5F.6138EB00" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AcrMmg0pk2js7ev0RUWry+07h+4Ysg== Content-Language: en-us This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0138_01CACC5F.6138EB00 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0139_01CACC5F.6138EB00" ------=_NextPart_001_0139_01CACC5F.6138EB00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Grayhawk, You caught me. Ok maybe that altitude was a few feet higher than sea level. Got to watch out for those leaping fish though. J I will bring my digital level out to the airport next time and give you all the exact settings for mine. In the run I did this evening it ran 212 TAS at 3000 ft. 2550 rpm WOT. 28.5" mp. 1.5" of ram boost. I have the flaps and ailerons sealed. Tried the elevator this evening but did not notice any difference. I do seem to run out of down trim at the high speeds though. Rudder position is pretty neutral but just a tap of left will center the ball. Craig N73S From: Sky2high@aol.com Sender: Subject: Re: [LML] Re: 320 Airfoil Reflex Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 20:05:55 -0400 To: lml@lancaironline.net Message Header Undecoded Message Craig, Interesting....... Note that the flaps will actually fly higher than their ground rigging position because of linkage slop and in flight air flow. Of course, every 300 series aircraft is different. Let's assume we are talking about a slow built (fast builds are slightly different), Short engine mount, small tail, pre-preg glass, standard wheels, and built according to plans. That means, by design, the flaps are in -7 degrees reflex when faired into the fillet - that is if the fillets were laterally located to the same position relative to the longeron. Also, remember that the horizontal stabilizer is to be mounted between -.5 to -1 degree incidence (relative to the longeron) - another variable. Note that increasing the reflex results in wing forces that want to further lift the nose. If the horizontal stabilizer is not at the correct AOI, the elevator may be necessarily positioned for more nose down force that may increase drag. It is not possible to know if your rigging is "sweet" for everyone else unless all the conditions match. Indeed, your reflex position may overcome a condition in your tail. If you wish to attain greater speeds, consider also using gap seals on the rudder and elevator. BTW, where is your rudder positioned at 215 Knots (true or indicated?). I do have a problem with your sea level speeds as the aircraft would have increased drag from the sea water. Grayhawk In a message dated 3/25/2010 2:58:23 P.M. Central Daylight Time, craig@skybolt.net writes: Hi Bill, I know a lot of others are claiming that reflex is at the faired in position. That may not be the best position. My little 320 does 215 kts at sea level. 210 is about the average cruise at 7500. I am dialing in an extra 1/2 inch (measured at the trailing edge of the flap) of reflex. While flying in formation I have determined that for my airplane this is the sweet spot. Too much will slow it down and any less will too. The difference between the faired in position and my reflex position is 7-10 kts. I also have the gaps on the flaps taped and gap seals on the ailerons. Craig N73S From: Bill Kennedy [mailto:bill_kennedy_3@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 3:27 AM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] 320 Airfoil Reflex I've never been certain that my flaps up position is exactly right. I know some of you couldn't sleep if their flaps weren't in exactly the best spot. So, here's what I would like from you: What is the exact angle between your cockpit longeron and the top inboard skin of your flap when it is fully up? I ask this question because it will be easy for me to measure and correct if necessary and it is not ambiguous. My plane is a 320. Thanks -- Bill Kennedy _____ Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now. Subscribe: Feed , Digest , Index . Unsubscribe Mail to ListMaster ------=_NextPart_001_0139_01CACC5F.6138EB00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Grayhawk,

 

You caught = me.  Ok maybe that altitude was a few feet higher than sea level.  Got to = watch out for those leaping fish though. J

 

I will bring my = digital level out to the airport next time and give you all the exact settings = for mine.

 

In the run I did = this evening it ran 212 TAS at 3000 ft.  2550 rpm WOT. 28.5” = mp.   1.5” of ram boost.   I have the flaps and ailerons sealed.  = Tried the elevator this evening but did not notice any difference. =

I do seem to run = out of down trim at the high speeds though. Rudder position is pretty neutral = but just a tap of left will center the ball. 

 

Craig

N73S

 

 

 

From:

Sky2high@aol.com

Sender:

<marv@lancaironline.net>

Subject:

Re: [LML] Re: 320 Airfoil Reflex

Date:

Thu, 25 Mar 2010 20:05:55 -0400

To:

lml@lancaironline.net

3D"Message

3D"Undecoded

Craig,

 

Interesting.......  Note that the flaps will = actually fly higher than their ground rigging position because of linkage slop and = in flight air flow.

 

Of course, every 300 series aircraft is different.  = Let's assume we are talking about a slow built (fast builds are slightly different), Short engine mount, small tail, pre-preg glass, standard = wheels, and built according to plans.  That means, by design, the flaps = are in -7 degrees reflex when faired into the fillet - that is if the fillets = were laterally located to the same position relative to the longeron.  = Also, remember that the horizontal stabilizer is to be mounted between = -.5 to -1 degree incidence (relative to the longeron) - another variable. =

 

Note that increasing the reflex results in = wing forces that want to further lift the nose.  If the horizontal stabilizer is = not at the correct AOI, the elevator may be necessarily positioned for more = nose down force that may increase drag.  It is not possible to = know if your rigging is "sweet" for everyone else unless = all the conditions match.  Indeed, your reflex position may overcome a = condition in your tail.

 

If you wish to attain greater speeds, consider also using gap seals on the rudder and elevator.  BTW, where = is your rudder positioned at 215 Knots (true or = indicated?).

 

I do have a problem with your sea level speeds as the = aircraft would have increased drag from the = sea water.

 

Grayhawk

 

In a message dated 3/25/2010 2:58:23 P.M. Central = Daylight Time, craig@skybolt.net writes:

 

Hi Bill,

 

I know a lot of others are claiming that reflex = is at the faired in position.  That may not be the best position.  My = little 320 does 215 kts at sea level.  210 is about the average cruise = at 7500.  I am dialing in an extra 1/2 inch (measured at the = trailing edge of the flap) of reflex.  While flying in formation I have = determined that for my airplane this is the sweet spot.  Too much will slow = it down and any less will too.  The difference between the faired in = position and my reflex position is 7-10 kts.  I also have the gaps on the = flaps taped  and gap seals on the ailerons.  =

 

Craig

N73S

From: = Bill Kennedy [mailto:bill_kennedy_3@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 3:27 AM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] 320 Airfoil Reflex

 

I've never been certain that my flaps up = position is exactly right. I know some of you couldn't sleep if their flaps = weren't in exactly the best spot. So, here's what I would like from you:

What is the exact angle between your cockpit longeron and the top = inboard skin of your flap when it is fully up? I ask this question because it = will be easy for me to measure and correct if necessary and it is not = ambiguous. My plane is a 320.

Thanks -- Bill Kennedy



Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM = protection. Sign up = now.

 

Subscribe: Fe= ed, = Digest, I= ndex.
U= nsubscribe
Mail to ListMaster

 

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