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Subject: Re: [LML] Re: More on Ed Smith's accident
X-Original-Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 11:33:20 -0400
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good point.
I did it for my airplane, which is very forward CG.
If I load it up to max weight, max rear CG that I can come up with, =
losing prop and oil puts me 3% out the back.
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Bill Wade=20
To: lml@lancaironline.net=20
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 10:16 AM
Subject: [LML] Re: More on Ed Smith's accident
I did some calculations- don't forget that the prop FELL OFF. That =
and the loss of oil changed the W&B immediately and dramatically.
I don't know how the plane was loaded so I used W&B figures for a =
IV-P that Lancair had sent me and added guesses of my own for fuel and =
baggage:=20
Weight Arm Mom =
Station
Empty- 2377 214876 =
90.40
Pilot- 170 98 16660
Co-pilot- 170 98 16660
50 gal fuel 300 94.8 28440
25# backseat 25 129 3225
_________________________________________________________
Total 3042 279,861 =
91.99
So far so good. Now lose the prop.
Prop- 78 9 (est) 702
Spinner 2 9 18
Flange & bolts 2 12 (est) 24
8 qt oil 14 30 (est) 420
_____________________________________________
96 1,164
____ ______
Result: 2946 278,697 =
94.6
I estimated the weight of the spinner and flange, the prop weight is =
Hartzell's value for a PHC-H3YF. I also made my best guess of the arms =
from Hartzell and TCM info. Oil is a guesstimate based on what I use in =
an IO-550. The CG limits for a IV-P are 86.5- 94.5.
If the Smiths weighed more than 340# combined or if they had baggage =
in the rear the results would've been worse.
Now imagine you're trying to fly a plane that's out of the envelope, =
has known stall issues, and keeps trying to raise its nose. All you =
could do would be to keep speed up to maintain elevator authority. In =
addition, the engine oil would have immediately pumped out of the =
crankshaft onto the windshield until the engine seized up.
I hope I never have to try to match Ed's accomplishment. I don't =
know what the situation was on the beach but I think there was a =
combination of circumstances that led to the tragedy through nobody's =
fault. -Bill Wade
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>good point.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I did it for my airplane, which is very =
forward=20
CG.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>If I load it up to max weight, max rear =
CG that I=20
can come up with, losing prop and oil puts me 3% out the =
back.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dsuper_chipmunk@roadrunner.com=20
href=3D"mailto:super_chipmunk@roadrunner.com">Bill Wade</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dlml@lancaironline.net=20
href=3D"mailto:lml@lancaironline.net">lml@lancaironline.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 22, 2010 =
10:16=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [LML] Re: More on Ed =
Smith's=20
accident</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> I did some calculations- don't =
forget that=20
the prop FELL OFF. That and the loss of oil changed the W&B =
immediately=20
and dramatically.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> I don't know how the plane was =
loaded so I=20
used W&B figures for a IV-P that Lancair had sent me and added =
guesses of=20
my own for fuel and baggage: </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
=
size=3D2> &nbs=
p; =20
Weight =20
=
Arm &nbs=
p; =20
=
Mom &nbs=
p; Station</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>Empty- =20
=
2377 &nb=
sp; &nbs=
p; =20
=
214876 &=
nbsp; 90.40</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
=
size=3D2>Pilot- &nbs=
p; =20
=
170 &nbs=
p;=20
=
98  =
; 16660</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
=
size=3D2>Co-pilot- &=
nbsp; 170  =
; 98 &nbs=
p; =20
16660</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>50 gal=20
fuel =20
300 =20
=
94.8 &nb=
sp; 28440</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>25# =
backseat =20
=
25 129 &n=
bsp; &nb=
sp; =20
3225</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
=
size=3D2>_________________________________________________________</FONT>=
</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
=
size=3D2>Total  =
; =20
=
3042 &nb=
sp; &nbs=
p; =20
=
279,861 =
=20
91.99</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>So far so good. Now lose the =
prop.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
=
size=3D2>Prop-  =
; =20
=
78  =
; =20
9=20
=
(est) &n=
bsp;=20
702</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
=
size=3D2>Spinner &nb=
sp; =20
=
2 =
=20
=
9 =
=20
18</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Flange & =
bolts =20
=
2 =
12=20
=
(est) &n=
bsp; =20
24</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>8 qt=20
=
oil &nbs=
p; =20
=
14  =
; 30=20
=
(est) &n=
bsp; 420</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>_____________________________________________</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
=
size=3D2> &nbs=
p;  =
; =20
=
96  =
; =
=20
1,164</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
=
size=3D2> &nbs=
p; =20
=
____ &nb=
sp; &nbs=
p; =20
______</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
=
size=3D2>Result: &nb=
sp; =20
=
2946 &nb=
sp; &nbs=
p; =20
=
278,697 =
=20
94.6</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I estimated the weight of the =
spinner and=20
flange, the prop weight is Hartzell's value for a PHC-H3YF. I =
also made=20
my best guess of the arms from Hartzell and TCM info. Oil is a =
guesstimate=20
based on what I use in an IO-550. The CG limits for a =
IV-P are 86.5-=20
94.5.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> If the Smiths weighed more =
than 340#=20
combined or if they had baggage in the rear the results would've =
been=20
worse.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Now imagine you're trying to =
fly a plane=20
that's out of the envelope, has known stall issues, and keeps trying =
to raise=20
its nose. All you could do would be to keep speed up to maintain =
elevator=20
authority. In addition, the engine oil would have immediately =
pumped out=20
of the crankshaft onto the windshield until the engine seized=20
up.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> I hope I never have to try to =
match Ed's=20
accomplishment. I don't know what the situation was on the beach but I =
think=20
there was a combination of circumstances that led to the tragedy =
through=20
nobody's fault. -Bill=20
Wade =20
</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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