X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 13:26:19 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from web62502.mail.re1.yahoo.com ([69.147.75.94] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.2) with SMTP id 4126829 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 10:53:25 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=69.147.75.94; envelope-from=charliekohler@yahoo.com Received: (qmail 8530 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Feb 2010 15:52:50 -0000 DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=F5Io8djyyJz23lnTE+369R/5Efg4IRRavUHXzniEFo394cJxdLZZh0Mnb4ueB4FPxUkhGemGjyK+gBCUxPgLzDY5vEQIw01waKqCxFqkfIVAvkkYH5sIZBgi+EzAOHLTt+y6hmZxhdFHpwCUujHq6ED8TV7TlMHFUZ+Llm0SmEo=; X-Original-Message-ID: <260665.8521.qm@web62502.mail.re1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: RPqU_AMVM1lubUI5QsoPaCqb7noSZNK4.NuHHqfzHe31wg0EQgAiTIBoGFCu0JxpG0bv5BsHWXaOqC5NbFrP7kCDPCVvUZTRvlo8FdE1z0eUEbq5fBugjgkIh.VCG.DdmYPUu.2WOk1aXhf2Yc_Xwx6oT_sfV2PyxlDBkstvt4C7tcZE7cBPPmP7Dx_4xofPvz7vcmCGWUjqQ.zaA0Jmwj9Ve1UKGy6l02F1uERZ0CyYAqRCoF70uBUJQikXZeBLGujuCn41mZOANa6q3shh_iKqrHKbS1uscebBdVsEWMPXi0j0rZ7deW7pHdpTEreFR5GTvK0CHdJYz695RP5tpnxapSU.xGOS9gnv Received: from [68.204.28.90] by web62502.mail.re1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 07:52:49 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/300.3 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 References: X-Original-Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 07:52:49 -0800 (PST) From: Charlie Kohler Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Turbine IVP Landing Accident Video X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1639297280-1266335569=:8521" --0-1639297280-1266335569=:8521 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Bob,=0AI think if you'll look LIV hydraulic schematic over, you will see= that -- the shuttle valve determines which pressure source to use. If the = electric hydraulic pump is inoperative--then the hand pump will provide eno= ugh pressure to extend the main landing gears provided the system is intact= .=0AAny leak after the gear selector will dump all (electric or hand pump--= in the down position) hydraulic pressure. That is why the designers of this= system installed the nose gear gas spring. =0AAnything after the gear sele= ctor-- well render the hydraulics inoperative. Including the hand pump. Tha= t is why the designer put a gas spring to extend the nose gear. To save our= wallets.=A0=0ACharlie K.=0A=0ASee me on the web at =0Awww.Lancair-IV.com= =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: "marv@lancair.ne= t" =0ATo: lml@yahoo.com=0ASent: Tue, February 16, 2010 9:= 10:13 AM=0ASubject: [LML] Re: Turbine IVP Landing Accident Video=0A=0A=0APo= sted for "Robert Pastusek" :=0A=0A=A0Laurie,=0A=A0=0AFi= rst of all, a very nice job of taking care of this emergency! Also, thanks= =0A=A0so much for the report to the rest of us. As you note, these things a= lways=0A=A0provide useful information, and this one caused me to think agai= n about my=0A=A0own airplane. Most of my IV-P electrical system is protecte= d with fuses; the=0A=A0alternators and hydraulic pump being the exceptions,= and with the CB's for=0A=A0these made very readily accessible for just the= situation you encountered.=0A=A0My concern is that you didn't have suffici= ent hydraulic fluid to lower/lock=0A=A0the gear with the manual pump. I det= ermined during construction that the=0A=A0pickup tube for the manual pump e= xtended lower in the tank than the electric=0A=A0pump pickup, and just let = it go at that. I did not test this at all. =0A=A0=0A=A0=0A=A0=0A=A0If you h= ave any thoughts about why you didn't have enough fluid left to use=0A=A0th= e backup system, I'd be most appreciative. Could the pitch attitude of the= =0A=A0aircraft had an effect? Other thoughts? Based on your experience, I'm= =0A=A0thinking of draining down my system through the electric pump and the= n=0A=A0trying the manual pump. Like I said, I took this one on faith of the= =0A=A0designer and did not test it, although it would have been easy to do = during=0A=A0build.=0A=A0=0A=A0=0A=A0=0A=A0Again, nice job landing the aircr= aft, and I'm happy you sustained minimal=0A=A0damage in the process. Thanks= especially for your comprehensive report. If=0A=A0you find more, especiall= y about why the emergency pump didn't work, we'd all=0A=A0appreciate hearin= g.=0A=A0=0A=A0=0A=A0=0A=A0Bob Pastusek=0A=A0=0AFor LOBO=0A=0A=0A--=0A=0AFor= archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html --0-1639297280-1266335569=:8521 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=0A
=0A

Hi Bob,

=0A

I think if yo= u'll look LIV hydraulic schematic over, you will see that -- the shuttle va= lve determines which pressure source to use. If the electric hydraulic pump= is inoperative--then the hand pump will provide enough pressure to extend = the main landing gears provided the system is intact.

=0A

Any l= eak after the gear selector will dump all (electric or hand pump--in the do= wn position) hydraulic pressure. That is why the designers of this system i= nstalled the nose gear gas spring.

=0A

Anything after the gear select= or-- well render the hydraulics inoperative. Including the hand pump. That = is why the designer put a gas spring to extend the nose gear. To save our w= allets.

 
=0A
Charlie K.
=0A
 
= =0A
See me on the web at
=0A=0A
&= nbsp;
=0A

=0A

=0A
=0A
=0AFrom: = "marv@lancair.net" <marv@lancair.net>
To: lml@yahoo.com
Sent: Tue, February 16, 2010 9:10:13 AM
Subject: [LML] Re: Turbine IVP Landing Accide= nt Video

=0A
Posted for "Robert Pastusek" <rpastu= sek@htii.com>:

 Laurie,
 
First of all, a very ni= ce job of taking care of this emergency! Also, thanks
 so much for = the report to the rest of us. As you note, these things always
 pro= vide useful information, and this one caused me to think again about my
=  own airplane. Most of my IV-P electrical system is protected with fus= es; the
 alternators and hydraulic pump being the exceptions, and w= ith the CB's for
 these made very readily accessible for just the s= ituation you encountered.
 My concern is that you didn't have suffi= cient hydraulic fluid to lower/lock
 the gear with the manual pump.= I determined during construction that the
 pickup tube for the man= ual pump extended lower in the tank than the electric
 pump pickup,= and just let it go at that. I did not test this at all.
 
 
 
 = If you have any thoughts about why you didn't have enough fluid left to use=
 the backup system, I'd be most appreciative. Could the pitch atti= tude of the
 aircraft had an effect? Other thoughts? Based on your = experience, I'm
 thinking of draining down my system through the el= ectric pump and then
 trying the manual pump. Like I said, I took t= his one on faith of the
 designer and did not test it, although it = would have been easy to do during
 build.
 
 
&n= bsp;
 Again, nice job landing the aircraft, and I'm happy you susta= ined minimal
 damage in the process. Thanks especially for your com= prehensive report. If
 you find more, especially about why the emer= gency pump didn't work, we'd all
 appreciate hearing.
 
=  
 
 Bob Pastusek
 
For LOBO

=0A

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