Mailing List lml@lancaironline.net Message #53690
From: Skip Slater <skipslater@verizon.net>
Sender: <marv@lancaironline.net>
Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Vne is NOT a meaningless number
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2009 11:51:38 -0500
To: <lml>
Mark,
   I beg to differ on the TAS vs IAS effect on Vne.  A good example is the ES.  It has a Vne of 220 KIAS.  However many turbocharged ES's (as well as the Columbia 400) can fly up in the mid 20's at a TAS of around 225 all day.  I'm guessing that at that speed, the IAS is somewhere in the vicinity of 150-160.  Until you reach a critical mach number (I don't even know what that is for my ES), IAS is the number you need to worry about with regard to flutter.
   As for the military guys punching out at high speed, you're mistaken.  I have a few thousand hours in ejection seats and TAS has nothing to do with opening shock - it's IAS we worried about.  In the Navy jets I flew, our chutes had a limiting IAS beyond which you could rip out the parachute panels if you deployed them.  The other issue was flailing injuries to your body from wind blast at high speeds.  I know of at least two Viet Nam ERA POW's who had serious knee damage when they punched
out of their A-4's at high speed (›400 KIAS) after being hit by SAM's (John McCain was one of them).
  I seem to recall max speed to punch out in my plane was 450 knots IAS.  Most seats employ a small drogue chute that deploys after ejection to stabilize and slow you down a bit before pulling out the main chute.  In the McDonnell Douglas Escapac seats I flew, the seat had an altitude sensor that wouldn't release you from the seat until you descended below a preset altitude.  My memory is a bit scratchy here, but I believe it was somewhere around 20,000'.  You could always manually release yourself too.  At low altitudes, you separated immediately.  Martin Baker seats worked differently, but still had a max IAS for ejection.  In F-14's you wore leg restraints that held your legs to the seat until separation to prevent flailing. I know of at least one F-14 RIO who punched himself out over the water in excess of 600 knots and was never found.  Bottom line though, TAS was never a limitation in any ejection seat I rode in.
   Skip Slater
Subscribe (FEED) Subscribe (DIGEST) Subscribe (INDEX) Unsubscribe Mail to Listmaster