X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 20:50:03 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from n10.bullet.re3.yahoo.com ([68.142.237.123] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.16) with SMTP id 3844200 for lml@lancaironline.net; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 07:19:16 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.142.237.123; envelope-from=casey.gary@yahoo.com Received: from [68.142.237.89] by n10.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Sep 2009 11:18:41 -0000 Received: from [216.252.111.166] by t5.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Sep 2009 11:18:41 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp101.mail.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Sep 2009 11:18:41 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 485004.83113.bm@omp101.mail.re3.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 88706 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Sep 2009 11:18:41 -0000 DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=B7R/NsS9H0iI2xdNg0RInMXXgKOivUAajiTUbnMB7RvvCZ0T9lulX0ttwkiwhEUPShFR0LPm3sqLZuRvx7C49J00LSYjX12QdA28T30mU3zQ3PK3bEgacaepfMkX5S5LaytwmwQ6bxg3/CUxfJAAZL2JMRqePR1OXxCanDd1b+E=; X-Original-Message-ID: <314529.88699.qm@web57503.mail.re1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: Uf2gwLMVM1noOXm7wbPW7G9JhZtap3P7YcJZphY7w01_2cfhHSnIWW2RpnLWgCM0nLzSFS0UeTsB5RcfxpF4lJppXI7vRlsD..7LcVp_WFgL2C6TSisgkb1eOSTqb.Pbcenmv7zUC68HpMMYFA_PlONyuDgYedmdIIgWtUMRi2k90AEjcSXW5juo8kn9RYoS7IvPcjfOpAZ5QISJv.tSX.Kyx_WX8xJc0YbjeJT5V8Wlz0JEV2rfxhuXROBZmWc3Ib0S9oqifulCnCxqdA3Xo_drMrGBosY- Received: from [97.122.190.126] by web57503.mail.re1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 04:18:40 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/1358.27 YahooMailWebService/0.7.347.2 References: X-Original-Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 04:18:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Gary Casey Subject: Re: HELP! Lightspeed ignition problem X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1197438324-1252581520=:88699" --0-1197438324-1252581520=:88699 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Fred,=0AIt looks like you've done most of the logical things to diagnose th= e problem. There might be one or two left. You correctly looked at the di= fference between cylinders 1 and 2 regarding the ignition, but there is one= more - the polarity of the spark. You did reverse the plug leads, which r= everses the plug polarity, but you might want to reverse the primary leads = on the coil. You've already changed out the coil itself, so that isn't lik= ely the issue, but I suppose it is possible. One place I would not look(ye= t) is inside the box, as it doesn't do anything different when firing 1 or = 2. It "runs" at crankshaft speed, so any failure of #1 to fire should also= equally affect #2. To bad it isn't easy to rotate the crank sensor to mak= e some other cylinder "#1". That's about the only ignition-related thing y= ou haven't tried.=0A=0ASomeone else mentioned something that might be more = likely - the vent for the injector on the #1 cylinder might be different th= an the others. If the injector itself is different, swapping between cylin= ders might give a clue. It might be triggered by the changing air flow pat= tern resulting with the cowl on. It always makes me more confident of the = fix if I can move the problem, not just make it go away. Since I can assum= e the engine ran correctly once, something might have changed. Is that ven= t partially plugged?=0AGary Casey=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________= ________=0A=0A=0A =0AMajor hair loss and frustration arising from an=0Ainte= rmittent, persistent, and worsening problem with my Lightspeed ignition on= =0Amy IO-550. (Magneto on second system.) Any help or guesses=0Awould be= greatly appreciated. =0A =0AThe Problem: bad missing on run up when runnin= g Lightspeed=0Aonly. Missing in No. 1 cylinder, when it occurred, which is= irregular. =0A =0AHere is where it gets weird: It only happens when the pl= enum=0Aand cowl are on. Plenum off: no problem, Plenum on, sometimes a=0A= problem. Today no problem. Put plenum and top cowl on: big problem,=0Alot= s of missing on no. 1 cylinder (not number 2) as evidenced by rapidly risin= g=0AEGT during the missing. =0A =0AThat would seem to suggest cooling air f= low is wiggling=0Asomething around. If so, we have not found it yet. =0A = =0AWhat we have tried: =0A=B7 Switched ignition coil for 1-2, put i= n new. =0A=B7 Switched plug lines between 1-2=0A=B7 Switche= d spark plugs. =0A=B7 Substituted new high tension line for cyl=0A= 1. Seemed to help until we put the cowl back on. Problem resumed.=0A=B7 = Ran timing light (cowl off) on all spark plugs,=0Agot good clean sig= nals, but then there was no missing with the cowl=0Aoff. We may want to = try again with cowl on and run the timing=0Alight wires out somehow. =0A= =B7 Checked timing against spec, got good steady=0Aconsistent signa= ls from the timing light, but again, this was cowl and plenum=0Aoff.=0A=B7 = Rerouted all primary and secondary leads with=0Aseparation from eac= h other and from ground surfaces. =0A=B7 Checked all possible pla= ces where wires=0Amight rub or wiggle due to cooling air blast when cowl i= s on. Secured=0Aall lines with lots of tie wraps to prevent wind driven wi= ggles.=0A=B7 Rerouted all suspicious secondary lines keeping=0Athem= well clear of everything.=0A=B7 Tied all lines down to restrict po= ssibility of=0Awires flopping around under the cooling air blast when cowl = is on. =0A =0ARight now, the only really definitive data is:=0A=B7 = Missing only occurs when cowl and plenum are on. =0A=B7 Missing is = in cylinder 1, NOT 1 and 2 at the=0Asame time. That suggests a secondary= wire fault, but substitutions=0Ayielded no improvements. =0A=B7 A= ll plugs are new (fewer than 5 hours) and=0Aappear clean and new =0A =0AThe= re is only one thing we have not tried (we think): My Lightspeed=0Abox is m= ounted on the front of the firewall, inside of a fibreglass box to which=0A= is routed a 1 inch SCAT line that directs cooling air from above the engine= =0Ainto the box and into the little cooling air port that Klaus puts into= =0Ahis six cylinder ignition systems. Theory: cowl on, lots of air flow, s= omething=0Ais happening inside the box that somehow affects cyl 1 (but not = two, which is a=0Amental puzzle as there is only one primary line from the = box to the coil for=0Acyls 1-2). We will try again tomorrow with the cooli= ng air blast tube=0Aconnected and then disconnected and see if we can find = any change, and then it=0Ais time to dig into the box. =0A =0AWe are really= grasping at straws here, and have a pile of=0Astraws several feet high tha= t yielded no results. Any suggestions or=0Aspeculations welcome. We may h= ave to hire a mechanic with psychic powers. =0A =0AFrustrated Fred=0A=0A=0A= =0A --0-1197438324-1252581520=:88699 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Fred,
It looks like you've done most of = the logical things to diagnose the problem.  There might be one or two= left.  You correctly looked at the difference between cylinders 1 and= 2 regarding the ignition, but there is one more - the polarity of the spar= k.  You did reverse the plug leads, which reverses the plug polarity, = but you might want to reverse the primary leads on the coil.  You've a= lready changed out the coil itself, so that isn't likely the issue, but I s= uppose it is possible.  One place I would not look(yet) is inside the = box, as it doesn't do anything different when firing 1 or 2.  It "runs= " at crankshaft speed, so any failure of #1 to fire should also equally aff= ect #2.  To bad it isn't easy to rotate the crank sensor to make some other cylinder "#1".  That's about the only ignition-related thi= ng you haven't tried.

Someone else mentioned somet= hing that might be more likely - the vent for the injector on the #1 cylind= er might be different than the others.  If the injector itself is diff= erent, swapping between cylinders might give a clue.  It might be trig= gered by the changing air flow pattern resulting with the cowl on.  It= always makes me more confident of the fix if I can move the problem, not j= ust make it go away.  Since I can assume the engine ran correctly once= , something might have changed.  Is that vent partially plugged?
=
Gary Casey




<= br>=0A=0A=0A =0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A

Major hair loss and frustration arising from = an=0Aintermittent, persistent, and worsening problem with my Lightspeed ign= ition on=0Amy IO-550.  (Magneto on second  system.)  Any hel= p or guesses=0Awould be greatly appreciated.

=0A=0A

 

=0A=0A

The Problem: bad missing on ru= n up when running Lightspeed=0Aonly.  Missing in No. 1 cylinder, when = it occurred, which is irregular.

=0A=0A

 <= /p> =0A=0A

Here is where it gets weird: It only happe= ns when the plenum=0Aand cowl are on.  Plenum off: no problem,  P= lenum on, sometimes a=0Aproblem.  Today no problem.  Put plenum a= nd top cowl on: big problem,=0Alots of missing on no. 1 cylinder (not numbe= r 2) as evidenced by rapidly rising=0AEGT during the missing.

=0A=0A  

=0A=0A

That would se= em to suggest cooling air flow is wiggling=0Asomething around.  If so,= we have not found it yet.

=0A=0A

 

= =0A=0A

What we have tried:

=0A=0A

=B7 &nbs= p;      =0ASwitched igni= tion coil for 1-2, put in new.

=0A=0A

=B7     =    =0ASwitched plug lines between 1-2 =0A=0A

=B7        =0ASwitched spark plugs.

=0A=0A

=B7     =    =0ASubstituted new high tension line= for  cyl=0A1.  Seemed to help until we put the cowl back on.&nbs= p; Problem resumed.

=0A=0A

=B7       =  =0ARan timing light (cowl off) on all spark plug= s,=0Agot good clean signals, but then  there was no missing with the c= owl=0Aoff.  We may want to  try again with cowl on and run the&nb= sp; timing=0Alight wires out somehow.

=0A=0A

=B7    = ;    =0AChecked timing against spe= c, got good steady=0Aconsistent signals from the timing light, but again, t= his was cowl and plenum=0Aoff.

=0A=0A

=B7     =    =0ARerouted all primary and secondar= y leads with=0Aseparation from each other and from ground surfaces.  <= /p> =0A=0A

=B7        =0AChecked all  possible places where wires=0Amight rub or = ; wiggle due to cooling air blast when cowl is on.  Secured=0Aall line= s with lots of tie wraps to prevent wind driven wiggles.

=0A=0A

=B7 = ;       =0ARerouted= all suspicious secondary lines keeping=0Athem well clear of everything. =0A=0A

=B7        =0ATied all lines down to restrict possibility of=0Awires flopping aro= und under the cooling air blast when cowl is on.

=0A=0A

 

=0A=0A

Right now, the only really= definitive data is:

=0A=0A

=B7       = ; =0AMissing only occurs when cowl and plenum are= on.=0A

=0A=0A

=B7        =0AMissing is in cylinder  1, NOT 1 and 2 at the=0Asame= time.   That suggests a secondary wire fault, but substitutions= =0Ayielded no improvements. 

=0A=0A

=B7    &nb= sp;   =0AAll plugs are new (fewer than = 5 hours) and=0Aappear clean and new

=0A=0A

 = ;

=0A=0A

There is only one thing we have not trie= d (we think): My Lightspeed=0Abox is mounted on the front of the firewall, = inside of a fibreglass box to which=0Ais routed a 1 inch SCAT line that dir= ects cooling air from above the engine=0Ainto the box and into the little c= ooling air port  that Klaus puts into=0Ahis six cylinder ignition syst= ems.  Theory: cowl on, lots of air flow, something=0Ais happening insi= de the box that somehow affects cyl 1 (but not two, which is a=0Amental puz= zle as there is only one primary line from the box to the coil for=0Acyls 1= -2).  We will try again tomorrow with the cooling air blast tube=0Acon= nected and then disconnected and see if we can find any change, and then it= =0Ais time to dig into the box.

=0A=0A

  =0A=0A

We are really grasping at straws here, and = have a pile of=0Astraws several feet high that yielded no results.  An= y suggestions or=0Aspeculations welcome.  We may have to hire a mechan= ic with psychic powers.=0A

=0A=0A

 

=0A= =0A

Frustrated Fred

=0A=0A


=0A=0A<= /div>=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
<= br>=0A=0A --0-1197438324-1252581520=:88699--