X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 09:52:50 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from vms173013pub.verizon.net ([206.46.173.13] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.16) with ESMTP id 3840372 for lml@lancaironline.net; Mon, 07 Sep 2009 19:56:02 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=206.46.173.13; envelope-from=n5zq@verizon.net Received: from newness ([173.72.139.201]) by vms173013.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-7.04 (built Sep 26 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPA id <0KPM008GML44GRDH@vms173013.mailsrvcs.net> for lml@lancaironline.net; Mon, 07 Sep 2009 18:55:17 -0500 (CDT) X-Original-Message-id: <3278B3591ED344C597814A7EB5A0D1D3@newness> From: "Bill" X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" X-Original-Cc: References: Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Requesting Hydraulic pictures or schematics for 360MKII X-Original-Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 19:55:16 -0400 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_005A_01CA2FF5.1EDDB620" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005A_01CA2FF5.1EDDB620 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am omitting the header tank and have a fwd hinged canopy. I am = planning on=20 mounting the hydraulic pump fwd of the fwd hinge bulkhead most likely = on the=20 nose gear tunnel. I would like to review how builders have plumbed their = hydraulic lines when the hydraulic pump is located fwd of the instrument = panel. Thank you for your help John Kezele John,=20 If you've already made up your mind to eliminate the header, then read = no further. If you're still considering it, you might want to read this = post of mine from March of 08 in reply to someone who was considering = the pros and cons of the header system: I'll give you my opinion but I must warn you it's quite biased. I'm a = BIG proponent of header tanks. So much so that I'm building one into the = IV that we're building now. So here it is: PUT IN THE HEADER TANK If you take a look at accident statistics in Lancairs, the majority are = pilot error. If we narrow the list down to airframe problems, fuel = related ones are at or near the top of the list. The header tank system = is beautiful in its simplicity. It's gravity feed, you don't need to = suck fuel UP to the engine and you can burn both wings together. This = feature alone eliminates big potential problems; pump cavitation and = unporting the fuel pickup to name a few. You can forget the slosh doors. A big practical as well as safety benefit is range. In many instances, = range is safety. In all instances, range is comfort. I really like = flying our 320 from Florida to Virginia knowing that if the weather is = crappy in Virginia, I've got fuel to fly comfortably to an = alternate...like Chicago, Montreal or Boston...really! The header tank = will give you another 10 or 11 gallons. HOWEVER lets assume that the = header tank gave you NO more fuel capacity. Even then it would increase = your practical range. Here's my reasoning; No header tank. You've got two very long, very flat fuel tanks. The fuel = quantity in a tank of this shape is difficult to measure accurately. = Besides, you really don't want to get the tanks very low for fear of = unporting the pickups. Generally in this situation I'd be getting pretty = nervous when the gauge, or the clock, said that I was getting anywhere = close to 1/4 tank. So in a 50 gallon system I'd want to be on the ground = (in good VFR weather) with no less than 13 gallons...probably more. Header tank. You've got the same wing tanks but now these are just aux = tanks feeding the main tank, the header. The header is a narrow, short = (compared to the wings) and HIGH tank. This shape of tank makes it easy = to measure the fuel quantity with a high degree of accuracy. The sight = gauge is practically failure proof. We've got a sight gauge and a = capacitance gauge that always agree. If the gauges say that I've got 5 = gallons, then I've got 5 gallons. Running the wings dry is absolutely NO = problem. Once the wings are empty you KNOW that you still have 90 = minutes or more in the header. Because of the MUCH greater certainty of = useable quantity in the header, I am very comfortable flying down to 5 = gallons or so. I KNOW that I can make 5 gallons last 45 minutes and I = KNOW that I, in fact, DO actually have 5 useable gallons. Same 50 = gallons but now I've got at least 8 more gallons that I'm comfortable = using. That's 200 miles! There's an old saying among the Bonanza guys that the most effective = SPEED mod that you can do to that plane is to add tip tanks. It doesn't = give you more knots, but it eliminates the fuel stop and THAT makes if = faster from A to B if you're going a long way. If I've convinced you to build the header tank, then here are some = additional recommendations. Make it removable. Much easier for maintenance. (the standard Lancair = header can easily be made removable) Put in a wing tank cross feed. This is easy. Essentially what we have in = our plane is a 3/8 tube running along the floor from one wing tank to = the other wing tank. In the middle (right under the console) I've got a = ball valve. The ball valve has an extended shaft connected to a knob on = the console. Open it and the fuel can gravity flow freely from one tank = to the other. Close it and you've got two separate tank systems. On = either side of the crossfeed valve I've got "T's" that connect to the = respective fuel transfer pumps. With the crossfeed valve open, EITHER = pump can pump all of the fuel from BOTH wings since it will gravity flow = to the low point in the system (the crossfeed valve). A single transfer = pump failure still allows you to access ALL of your fuel. Without a = crossfeed, you not only limit your available fuel but you've just turned = the failed side fuel into ballast. You might not even be able to use all = of the good side fuel because of the unbalance problem. Put in an automatic fuel transfer system. A couple of float switches in = the header and a simple circuit will allow you to put the pumps to = "auto" and they will keep your header between full and 8 or 9 gallons = with no action from you. The system should also have a "manual" = capability where you can turn the pumps on or off as you wish. Baffle the float switches. We've got our float switches in a rather = small sub compartment of the header with smallish holes to allow fuel in = or out. This makes sloshing or turbulence less likely to affect the = operation of the auto system. (the sight gauge taps off the same area) Add a third float switch (or Pillar Point sensor) in the header at the 4 = or 5 gallon level. This operates your LOW FUEL light (the big red one) = in case your automatic system fails and you don't notice, or in case you = need a reminder to land NOW. *Optional... We also put float switches at the bottom of the wing tanks = that are connected through the pump circuit to a "wing low" light. If = the wing is empty (or close) AND you've got a pump on, you'll get the = light. This keeps you from operating the transfer pumps dry for extended = periods as well as giving you notice that you've emptied your wing. I've attached pictures that I hope will make some of this clear. Please = feel free to call or write (or visit) if I can help further. I'll be in = Milan, TN on the 1st. Are you near there? Bill Harrelson N5ZQ 320 1,450 hrs N6ZQ IV under construction ------=_NextPart_000_005A_01CA2FF5.1EDDB620 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 I am omitting the = header tank and=20 have a fwd hinged canopy.  I am planning on
mounting the = hydraulic=20 pump fwd of the  fwd hinge bulkhead most likely on the =
nose gear=20 tunnel. I would like to review how builders have plumbed their =
hydraulic=20 lines when the hydraulic pump is located fwd of the instrument=20
panel.
 Thank you for your help
 John = Kezele
 
 
 
 
John,
 
If you've already made up your mind to = eliminate=20 the header, then read no further. If you're still considering it, you = might want=20 to read this post of mine from March of 08 in reply to someone who was=20 considering the pros and cons of the header system:
 
 
 
 
I'll give you my opinion but I must warn = you it's=20 quite biased. I'm a BIG proponent of header tanks. So much so that I'm = building=20 one into the IV that we're building now. So here it=20 is:

   PUT IN THE HEADER TANK

If you take a = look at=20 accident statistics in Lancairs, the majority are pilot error. If we = narrow the=20 list down to airframe problems, fuel related ones are at or near the top = of the=20 list. The header tank system is beautiful in its simplicity. It's = gravity feed,=20 you don't need to suck fuel UP to the engine and you can burn both wings = together. This feature alone eliminates big potential problems; pump = cavitation=20 and unporting the fuel pickup to name a few. You can forget the slosh=20 doors.

A big practical as well as safety benefit is range. In = many=20 instances, range is safety. In all instances, range is comfort. I really = like=20 flying our 320 from Florida to Virginia knowing that if the weather is = crappy in=20 Virginia, I've got fuel to fly comfortably to an alternate...like = Chicago,=20 Montreal or Boston...really! The header tank will give you another 10 or = 11=20 gallons. HOWEVER lets assume that the header tank gave you NO more fuel=20 capacity. Even then it would increase your practical range. Here's my=20 reasoning;

No header tank. You've got two very long, very flat = fuel=20 tanks. The fuel quantity in a tank of this shape is difficult to measure = accurately. Besides, you really don't want to get the tanks very low for = fear of=20 unporting the pickups. Generally in this situation I'd be getting pretty = nervous=20 when the gauge, or the clock, said that I was getting anywhere close to = 1/4=20 tank. So in a 50 gallon system I'd want to be on the ground (in good VFR = weather) with no less than 13 gallons...probably more.

Header = tank.=20 You've got the same wing tanks but now these are just aux tanks feeding = the main=20 tank, the header. The header is a narrow, short (compared to the wings) = and HIGH=20 tank. This shape of tank makes it easy to measure the fuel quantity with = a high=20 degree of accuracy. The sight gauge is practically failure proof. We've = got a=20 sight gauge and a capacitance gauge that always agree. If the gauges say = that=20 I've got 5 gallons, then I've got 5 gallons. Running the wings dry is = absolutely=20 NO problem. Once the wings are empty you KNOW that you still have 90 = minutes or=20 more in the header. Because of the MUCH greater certainty of useable = quantity in=20 the header, I am very comfortable flying down to 5 gallons or so. I KNOW = that I=20 can make 5 gallons last 45 minutes and I KNOW that I, in fact, DO = actually have=20 5 useable gallons. Same 50 gallons but now I've got at least 8 more = gallons that=20 I'm comfortable using. That's 200 miles!

There's an old saying = among the=20 Bonanza guys that the most effective SPEED mod that you can do to that = plane is=20 to add tip tanks. It doesn't give you more knots, but it eliminates the = fuel=20 stop and THAT makes if faster from A to B if you're going a long = way.

If=20 I've convinced you to build the header tank, then here are some = additional=20 recommendations.

Make it removable. Much easier for maintenance. = (the=20 standard Lancair header can easily be made removable)

Put in a = wing tank=20 cross feed. This is easy. Essentially what we have in our plane is a 3/8 = tube=20 running along the floor from one wing tank to the other wing tank. In = the middle=20 (right under the console) I've got a ball valve. The ball valve has an = extended=20 shaft connected to a knob on the console. Open it and the fuel can = gravity flow=20 freely from one tank to the other. Close it and you've got two separate = tank=20 systems. On either side of the crossfeed valve I've got "T's" that = connect to=20 the respective fuel transfer pumps. With the crossfeed valve open, = EITHER pump=20 can pump all of the fuel from BOTH wings since it will gravity flow to = the low=20 point in the system (the crossfeed valve). A single transfer pump = failure still=20 allows you to access ALL of your fuel. Without a crossfeed, you not only = limit=20 your available fuel but you've just turned the failed side fuel into = ballast.=20 You might not even be able to use all of the good side fuel because of = the=20 unbalance problem.

Put in an automatic fuel transfer system. A = couple of=20 float switches in the header and a simple circuit will allow you to put = the=20 pumps to "auto" and they will keep your header between full and 8 or 9 = gallons=20 with no action from you. The system should also have a "manual" = capability where=20 you can turn the pumps on or off as you wish.

Baffle the float = switches.=20 We've got our float switches in a rather small sub compartment of the = header=20 with smallish holes to allow fuel in or out. This makes sloshing or = turbulence=20 less likely to affect the operation of the auto system. (the sight gauge = taps=20 off the same area)

Add a third float switch (or Pillar Point = sensor) in=20 the header at the 4 or 5 gallon level. This operates your LOW FUEL light = (the=20 big red one) in case your automatic system fails and you don't notice, = or in=20 case you need a reminder to land NOW.

*Optional... We also put = float=20 switches at the bottom of the wing tanks that are connected through the = pump=20 circuit to a "wing low" light. If the wing is empty (or close) AND = you've got a=20 pump on, you'll get the light. This keeps you from operating the = transfer pumps=20 dry for extended periods as well as giving you notice that you've = emptied your=20 wing.

I've attached pictures that I hope will make some of this = clear.=20 Please feel free to call or write (or visit) if I can help further. I'll = be in=20 Milan, TN on the 1st. Are you near there?

Bill Harrelson
N5ZQ = 320=20 1,450 hrs
N6ZQ IV under = construction

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