X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 21:54:50 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imr-da04.mx.aol.com ([205.188.105.146] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.16) with ESMTP id 3824664 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 21:50:04 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.105.146; envelope-from=Sky2high@aol.com Received: from imo-da03.mx.aol.com (imo-da03.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.201]) by imr-da04.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id n7Q1nKp1032186 for ; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 21:49:20 -0400 Received: from Sky2high@aol.com by imo-da03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.5.) id q.c0e.588b6795 (41809) for ; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 21:49:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Sky2high@aol.com X-Original-Message-ID: X-Original-Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 21:49:16 EDT Subject: Re: [LML] Re: What may have caused Kaboom at 16.5 - HYPOXIA X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1251251356" X-Mailer: AOL 9.1 sub 5006 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: Sky2high@aol.com -------------------------------1251251356 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en John, John, et al, =20 And especially for the low altitude guys--- =20 I don't know why I chose to respond to this title, perhaps it was the =20 erroneous statement that there is some benefit in knowing your individual= =20 reactions to low O2. Perhaps it is that the high altitude course and sig= noff is=20 of little use to those of use that fly unpressurized and below FL18. =20 First, individual response to lack of O2 vary with not only altitude and= =20 dew point, but also state of exhaustion, weight, hydration, age, TOD, bloo= d =20 sugar level, etc. Your response as a well toned 30 year old will be=20 different than when you reach 55 years, are slightly overweight, wear gla= sses=20 and don't sleep well. =20 =20 You need a rule about O2 user and stick to it while your head is still=20 operating above 96% saturation. =20 One study I read looked at the response to the 13K foot elevation of an= =20 observation deck in Hawaii - both of that on visitors and regular workers= . =20 The short result is that the workers exhibited different responses on=20 different days, depending................. =20 My own experience (and the confessing of others) is that there can be an= =20 insidious degradation of memory/logic mental processing by some O2 =20 deprivations. I like to relate this to the sudden Swiss Cheese brain - = most=20 thinking is fine, there are some black holes. Most of the time it does= not result=20 in death - just some ridiculous error. =20 My gear up in Sedona is a great example. High humidity, high temps from= =20 IL to Santa Fe (8000 MSL, 10500 Dalt) had me on O2 at 12000 MSL approach= to=20 Santa Fe (stop because of hi mtn winds), 3 hr lay over waiting for onset= =20 of evening and lesser winds - the last 45 min leg was with no O2 even=20 thought the cannula was available on the next seat and the Oximeter aroun= d my=20 neck was never used for a blood check. Engine notations were clear and= =20 detailed over MO and approach to Santa Fe, notes taken on final leg to Se= dona=20 were garbled and childlike. Sorry, I was unable to recognize that as a= =20 symptom.......I felt fine...... My Spinal nervous system flew the landin= g just=20 fine - except no GUMPS, no three green check, no wheels. A minor oversig= ht.=20 I was tired, hungry and O2 deprived because of high density altitudes,= =20 etc. You should see the progression (degradation) of my notes............= ...=20 =20 I understand that the military requires O2 from the ground if the extende= d=20 flight is over 5000 MSL.=20 =20 My rule for long cross countries is similar to the military - I am old,= =20 always tired, overweight, grumpy, irritable and out of shape (unless you= like=20 the shape of apples with spindly legs). I have no trouble donning the =20 miniscule cannula and flipping the demand O2 system to supply each breath= with=20 a pulse above 5K. =20 If you fly below FL18, please consider studying the implications of O2 =20 deprivation beyond that stuff spread around by the FAA. And, you don't= need=20 an endorsement. =20 Grayhawk =20 =20 In a message dated 8/19/2009 7:34:49 P.M. Central Daylight Time, =20 JohnB@Bohn-Tech.com writes: =20 I added a CO GUARDIAN MODEL 353 + pressure alarm on my panel recently=E2= =80=A6 .good backup but not a cheap as a bag of chips. BTW I recommend everyone= take=20 a high altitude training course=E2=80=A6you really get to know your indiv= idual=20 reactions to low Ox. =20 =20 John C. Bohn=20 N28487 4P=20 Direct(cell) 503-887-2933=20 Home- 573-760-1090 =20 =20 ____________________________________ =20 From: marv@lancair.net [mailto:marv@lancair.net]=20 Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 12:12 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: What may have caused Kaboom at 16.5 =20 Posted for John Hafen : As I looked at the seal and its distance to the door frame at various=20 places around the frame, I could see that it was fairly close all around (1/8 to 1/4 inch) except for where it blew (right by the stick). In that area, there was a gap of 1/2 inch to perhaps 5/8ths inch. The thought is that= as the seal rounds the 90 degree corner, it is already =C2=B3stretched=C2=B2= (because of the 90 degree bend) and has less expansion capacity than it would in a straight or flat area. So the area was raised (see below) to narrow the gap, that hopefully will support the new $450 seal better (limit the expansion required). Meanwhile, based on posts from many of you, I=C2=B9ve decided to permanen= tly=20 hang a bag of corn chips from the middle of the Rosen Sun Visors. If I ever= =20 lose cabin pressure again, I anticipate the bag will blow, providing both an audible and visual warning of cabin depressurization (my father=C2=B9s id= ea, actually). I=C2=B9m trying to figure out a way to have the exploding corn= chip bag automatically turn on the emergency oxygen supply, but I haven=C2=B9t= =20 figured that our out quite yet. Cheers John Hafen N413AJ IV (soon to be P) 160 hours -------------------------------1251251356 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en
John, John, et al,
 
And especially for the low altitude guys---
 
I don't know why I chose to respond to this title, perhaps it was the= =20 erroneous statement that there is some benefit in knowing your indivi= dual=20 reactions to low O2.  Perhaps it is that the high altitude course and= =20 signoff is of little use to those of use that fly unpressurized and below= =20 FL18.
 
First, individual response to lack of O2 vary with not only altitude= and=20 dew point, but also state of exhaustion, weight, hydration, age, TOD,= blood=20 sugar level, etc.   Your response as a well toned 30 year=20 old will be different than when you reach 55 years, are sli= ghtly=20 overweight, wear glasses and don't sleep well. 
 
You need a rule about O2 user and stick to it while your head is=20 still operating above 96% saturation.
 
One study I read looked at the response to the 13K foot elevatio= n of=20 an observation deck in Hawaii - both of that on visitors and regular=20 workers.  The short result is that the workers exhibited different=20 responses on different days, depending.................
 
My own experience (and the confessing of others) is that there can be= an=20 insidious degradation of memory/logic mental processing by some O2=20 deprivations.  I like to relate this to the sudden Swiss Cheese brain= -=20 most thinking is fine, there are some black holes.  Most of the time= it=20 does not result in death - just some ridiculous error.
 
My gear up in Sedona is a great example.  High humidity, high te= mps=20 from IL to Santa Fe (8000 MSL, 10500 Dalt) had me on O2 at 12000=20 MSL approach to Santa Fe (stop because of hi mtn winds), 3 hr la= y over=20 waiting  for onset of evening and lesser winds - the last 45 min leg= was=20 with no O2 even thought the cannula was available on the next seat and the= =20 Oximeter around my neck was never used for a blood check. = Engine=20 notations were clear and detailed over MO and approach to Santa Fe,= notes=20 taken on final leg to Sedona were garbled and childlike.  Sorry, I wa= s=20 unable to recognize that as a symptom.......I felt fine......  My Spi= nal=20 nervous system flew the landing just fine - except no GUMPS, no three gree= n=20 check, no wheels.  A minor oversight.  I was tired, hungry and= O2=20 deprived because of high density altitudes, etc. You should see = the=20 progression (degradation) of my notes...............
 
I understand that the military requires O2 from the ground if th= e=20 extended flight is over 5000 MSL. 
 
My rule for long cross countries is similar to the military - I= am=20 old, always tired, overweight, grumpy, irritable and out of shape (unless= you=20 like the shape of apples with spindly legs).  I have no trouble donni= ng the=20 miniscule cannula and flipping the demand O2 system to supply each breath= with a=20 pulse above 5K.
 
If you fly below FL18, please consider studying the implications of= O2=20 deprivation beyond that stuff spread around by the FAA.  And, = you=20 don't need an endorsement.
 
Grayhawk
 
In a message dated 8/19/2009 7:34:49 P.M. Central Daylight Time,=20 JohnB@Bohn-Tech.com writes:

I added a CO= GUARDIAN=20 MODEL 353 + pressure alarm on my panel recently=E2=80=A6.good backup but= not a cheap=20 as a bag of chips.  BTW I recommend everyone take a high altitude= =20 training course=E2=80=A6you really get to know your individual reactions= to low Ox.=20

 

John C.=20 Bohn

N28487=20 4P

Direct(cell)= =20 503-887-2933

Home-=20 573-760-1090

From:<= /SPAN>=20 marv@lancair.net [mailto:marv@lancair.net]
Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009= 12:12=20 PM
To:=20 lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: Re: What may have caused= Kaboom=20 at 16.5

 

Posted for John Hafen=20 <j.hafen@comcast.net>:

 As I looked at the seal and it= s=20 distance to the door frame at various places
 around the frame,= I=20 could see that it was fairly close all around (1/8 to
 1/4 inch)= =20 except for where it blew (right by the stick).  In that=20 area,
 there was a gap of 1/2 inch to perhaps 5/8ths=20 inch.  The thought is that as
 the seal rounds the 90= degree=20 corner, it is already =C2=B3stretched=C2=B2 (because of
 the 90= degree bend) and=20 has less expansion capacity than it would in a
 straight or flat= =20 area.  So the area was raised (see below) to narrow=20 the
 gap, that hopefully will support the new $450 seal better= (limit=20 the
 expansion required).
 
 Meanwhile, based on= posts=20 from many of you, I=C2=B9ve decided to permanently hang
 a bag= of corn=20 chips from the middle of the Rosen Sun Visors.  If I ever=20 lose
 cabin pressure again, I anticipate the bag will blow, prov= iding=20 both an
 audible and visual warning of cabin depressurization (m= y=20 father=C2=B9s idea,
 actually). I=C2=B9m trying to figure out a= way to have the=20 exploding corn chip
 bag automatically turn on the emergency oxy= gen=20 supply, but I haven=C2=B9t figured
 that our out quite=20 yet.
 
 Cheers
 
 John=20 Hafen
 N413AJ  IV (soon to be P) 160=20 hours

<= br/>
-------------------------------1251251356--