X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 13:02:41 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from col0-omc3-s11.col0.hotmail.com ([65.55.34.149] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.12) with ESMTP id 3486954 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 20:12:53 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=65.55.34.149; envelope-from=bill_kennedy_3@hotmail.com Received: from COL108-W79 ([65.55.34.135]) by col0-omc3-s11.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Tue, 10 Feb 2009 17:12:17 -0800 X-Original-Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: bill_kennedy_3@hotmail.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_f8942ba7-f06f-461a-8aaf-1457a5568ca6_" X-Originating-IP: [71.111.120.17] From: Bill Kennedy X-Original-To: Subject: RE: [LML] Re: Legacy damaged X-Original-Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 17:12:17 -0800 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Feb 2009 01:12:17.0918 (UTC) FILETIME=[C830C1E0:01C98BE5] --_f8942ba7-f06f-461a-8aaf-1457a5568ca6_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If these "oscillations" occur=2C they are most likely caused by a pilot div= erting his attention from flying a very controllable airplane to attempting= to shut a canopy that doesn't need to be shut=2C with predictable results. As I've said=2C I've had two canopy unlatched incidents and noticed no adve= rse flight characteristics. The lesson is to keep your act together and fly the airplane. Many don't=2C= and that is the problem. I've nothing against systems to keep you from having an open canopy in flig= ht=2C be it rigorous checklist use or electro-mechanical gadgets=2C but you= 've got to keep your head on straight when things go wrong. To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue=2C 10 Feb 2009 18:38:05 -0500 From: mjrav@comcast.net Subject: [LML] Re: Legacy damaged Another two cents from a 360 guy. =20 One of my 4 latches opened in flight once. I've=20 always insisted on being the one to latch them since. =20 I can see the possibility that someone in a Legacy might=20 have no problem with uncontrollability one time and have a serious problem = on=20 another occasion. The description=2C as I read it=2C suggests an oscillati= on=20 happening. So=2C if in smooth air=2C a steady handed pilot brings it back= =20 around for landing he might never start this oscillation. Once this=20 elusive oscillation begins=2C maybe it is hard to make it stop - or even=20 impossible. =20 My (small tail) 360 will pitch oscillate on=20 takeoff when heavily loaded and having an aft CG unless I take steps to=20 prevent it. I suspect an unlatched canopy would aggravate the=20 problem. Having more speed and some=20 flaps down longer will help. =20 Mark Ravinski 360 1455 hrs on the plane - 1085 of it=20 mine. ----- Original Message -----=20 From:=20 Jim=20 Scales=20 To: lml@lancaironline.net=20 Sent: Tuesday=2C February 10=2C 2009 1:32=20 PM Subject: [LML] Re: Legacy damaged =20 =20 Being an ES flyer I am not really qualified to enter this thread but I=20 will anyway. Just a tinkerer's thoughts. =20 An item for a checklist on the hinged canopy could be "Check Canopy=20 Safety Catch". It would refer to a safety chain (or cable) very=20 similar to that which is used for security on a door in a hotel. I'm=20 sure the assembly would need to be stronger but the design could be=20 similar=2C very simple and pretty well fool proof (as long as it is conne= cted=2C=20 of course). =20 I would think this would control the problem=2C if the latch=20 releases=2C by holding the canopy to maximum opening of a couple of=20 inches. No need to attempt to close it. No electronics. No chance=20 of failure of micro switches=2C lights or horns. Very inexpensive. =20 It does not insure that the canopy latches are properly operated but=2C i= f=20 the reports of controllability when the canopy pops are correct=2C it wou= ld=20 prevent serious problems and allow the plane to be landed safely. It=20 would also function in the case of a late canopy release such as in cruis= e=2C in=20 which case warning systems would be of little value. =20 If this line of thought has been followed in the past=2C and found to be = a=20 non-solution=2C I apologize for taking up space. =20 Just a thought............. =20 Jim Scales =20 =20 =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bill Kennedy=20 To: lml@lancaironline.net=20 Sent: Monday=2C February 09=2C 2009 11:49=20 PM Subject: [LML] Legacy damaged =20 Forget about winch systems=2C etc. for the canopy. If it comes=20 open in-flight=2C ignore it and land the plane as soon as practical=2C = close the=20 canopy and go about your business.=20 --_f8942ba7-f06f-461a-8aaf-1457a5568ca6_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If these "oscillations" occur=2C they are most likely caused by a pilot div= erting his attention from flying a very controllable airplane to attempting= to shut a canopy that doesn't need to be shut=2C with predictable results.=

As I've said=2C I've had two canopy unlatched incidents and noticed= no adverse flight characteristics.

The lesson is to keep your act t= ogether and fly the airplane. Many don't=2C and that is the problem.
I've nothing against systems to keep you from having an open canopy in fli= ght=2C be it rigorous checklist use or electro-mechanical gadgets=2C but yo= u've got to keep your head on straight when things go wrong.

To: lml@lancaironline.net
Date: Tue=2C 10 Feb 2009 18:= 38:05 -0500
From: mjrav@comcast.net
Subject: [LML] Re: Legacy damaged=

Another two cents from a 360 guy.
 =3B
One of my 4 latches opened in flight once. = =3B I've=20 always insisted on being the one to latch them since.
 =3B
I can see the possibility that someone in a Legac= y might=20 have no problem with uncontrollability one time and have a serious problem = on=20 another occasion. =3B The description=2C as I read it=2C suggests an os= cillation=20 happening. =3B So=2C if in smooth air=2C a steady handed pilot brings i= t back=20 around for landing he might never start this oscillation. =3B Once this= =20 elusive oscillation begins=2C maybe it is hard to make it stop - or even=20 impossible.
 =3B
My (small tail) 360 will pitch oscillate on=20 takeoff =3Bwhen heavily loaded and having an aft CG unless I take steps= to=20 prevent it.
I suspect an unlatched canopy would aggravate the= =20 problem. =3B =3B =3B Having more sp= eed and some=20 flaps down longer will help.
 =3B
Mark Ravinski
360 =3B =3B 1455 hrs on the plane - 1085 = of it=20 mine.
-= ---- Original Message -----
From:=20 Jim=20 Scales
<= b>Sent: Tuesday=2C February 10=2C 2009 1:32=20 PM
<= b>Subject: [LML] Re: Legacy damaged

Being an ES flyer I am not really qualified to enter this thread but= I=20 will anyway. =3BJust a tinkerer's thoughts.
 =3B
An item for =3Ba checklist on the hinged canopy could be "Check = Canopy=20 Safety Catch". =3B It would refer to a safety chain (or cable) = =3Bvery=20 similar to that which is used =3Bfor security on a door in a hotel.&n= bsp=3BI'm=20 sure the assembly =3Bwould need to be stronger =3Bbut the design = could be=20 similar=2C very simple and pretty well fool proof (as long as it is conne= cted=2C=20 of course).
 =3B
I =3Bwould think this =3Bwould control the =3Bproblem=2C= if the latch=20 releases=2C by holding the canopy to maximum opening of a couple of=20 inches. =3BNo need to attempt to close it. No electronics. =3B No= chance=20 of failure of micro switches=2C lights or horns. =3B Very inexpensive= .
 =3B
It does not insure that the canopy latches are properly operated but= =2C if=20 the reports of controllability when the canopy pops are correct=2C = =3Bit would=20 prevent serious problems and allow the plane to be landed safely. =3B= It=20 would also function in the case of a late canopy release such as in cruis= e=2C in=20 which case warning systems would be of little value.
 =3B
If this line of thought has been followed in the past=2C and found t= o be a=20 non-solution=2C I apologize for taking up space.
 =3B
Just a thought.............
 =3B
Jim Scales
 =3B
 =3B
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday=2C February 09=2C 2009 11:49=20 PM
Subject: [LML] Legacy damaged

Forget about winch systems=2C etc. for the canopy. If it= comes=20 open in-flight=2C ignore it and land the plane as soon as practical=2C = close the=20 canopy and go about your business.=20
= --_f8942ba7-f06f-461a-8aaf-1457a5568ca6_--