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To:  lml@lancaironline.net
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 16:20:39 -0500
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From: "Jabe Luttrell" <JabeLuttrell@comcast.net>
References: <list-3429362@logan.com>
Subject: Re: [LML] GEESE
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Hello Matt,

In my experience, geese fly where and when they choose.  I flew IFR =
through Pennsylvania amid layers of clouds at 6,000'.  ATC called out =
traffic.  It was an eschelon of geese above me.  I flew VFR over =
Harford, Ct. at 2,000'.  A Canada goose was flying from left to right a =
few hundred feet above me.  Just as it passed the fuselage above it =
folded its wings and dove directly into my right engine (Cessna 320).  =
It damaged the spinner, propeller, nose bowl, lower nacelle, engine =
cross over tube and deposited lots of itself in the engine nacelle.  I =
was watching it the whole time.  I couldn't maneuver the plane fast =
enough to avoid it.  How could an airliner?  From that experience, I now =
aim at any goose or eschelon of geese on an converging path, expecting =
them to dive out of the way as I get closer.

Jabe Luttrell
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Matt Reeves=20
  To: lml@lancaironline.net=20
  Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 10:41 AM
  Subject: [LML] GEESE


  Opinion by Matt Reeves:

  FLOCKS OF GEESE FLY SLOW and usually in a "V" shape, AND ARE EASY TO =
SEE ON A BLUE SKY DAY - AND ARE sometimes DETECTABLE ON RADAR both on =
airplanes and on the ground.   Pilots WERE heros once plane hit the =
flock, but COULD have the collision with geese been avoided and the =
answer may be YES.   =20

  It is possible that NEITHER pilot was looking straight out the window =
because the airplane was on an instrument flight plan =3D meaning, =
controllers on the ground were responsible for aircraft separation.  =20

  ALSO, this aircraft floated for enough time to save the passengers and =
did not break apart mainly because of pilot skill bringing it down to a =
shallow angle of impact at the slowest possible airspeed above stall =
speed AND it is built out of CARBON FIBER which is significantly LIGHTER =
and stronger than aluminum and more flexible AND more seamless =
preventing instant flooding, thus saving lives (sorry RV guys).  =20

  Baggage and landing gear compartments sealed with air also helped =
buoyancy.  PILOTS WERE HEROS in saving lives, but the accident MAY have =
been avoidable simply by looking out the window.    Future geese =
avoidance may include horns on aircraft, much like deer horns on cars, =
radar, and simply looking out the window on the departure and arrival =
checklists.  =20

  This aircraft was on an IFR flight plan meaning looking out the window =
was not required by the pilots since the controllers on the ground were =
responsible for separating aircraft.   However, at low altitude, at =
geese flight levels, looking out the window should be mandatory.  Most =
geese do not fly in clouds.

  All points I have not seen reported.

  What's next?  Billions in research and in the end, no changes except a =
Goose Therapist Lady will make off with millions and will simply tell us =
the geese are depressed that we are taking over their skies.  And in the =
end?  I will marry her.

  Matt

  marv@lancair.net wrote:
    Posted for David Standish <carbonflier@bresnan.net>:

     That being said I still need a couple more pilots to get Pete to =
come out to=20
    Montana this summer.  Montana is a great place to fly.  Lots of room =
for=20
    training.  Billings is a great small city.  Yellowstone Park is =
nearby.  And a=20
    local FBO has agreed to discount fuel.  Please contact me if you are =

    interested.
    =20
     David Standish
    =20
    =20
    =20
    =20
     flypetezacc@aol.com wrote:
    > **
    >
    > The root problem is getting the message out to those that think =
they=20
    > do not need training.  43% of the accidents are people with less =
than=20
    > 100 hours in type.  But, there is a very large number of accidents =

    > from people with 5000-20000 hours.  The ease of receiving training =
has=20
    > never been easier I implore those that do not need training to get =
it=20
    > anyway!
    >
    > Grassroots effort. Go down the hangar row and let the lancair =
pilot=20
    > know why its important to get training from ANY qualified=20
    > instructor. help make 2009 the safest year for Lancair pilots.
    >
    > Thank you,
    >
    > Peter Zaccagnino
    > HP-AT.com, Inc
    > 1046 River Ave
    > Flemington, NJ 08822
    > 908 391 2001


--For archives and unsub =
http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html


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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello Matt,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>In my experience, geese fly where and =
when they=20
choose.&nbsp; I flew IFR through Pennsylvania amid layers of clouds at=20
6,000'.&nbsp; ATC called out traffic.&nbsp; It was an eschelon of geese =
above=20
me.&nbsp; I flew VFR over Harford, Ct. at 2,000'.&nbsp; A Canada goose =
was=20
flying from left to right a few hundred feet above me.&nbsp; Just as it =
passed=20
the fuselage above it folded its wings and dove directly into my right =
engine=20
(Cessna 320).&nbsp; It damaged the spinner, propeller, nose bowl, lower =
nacelle,=20
engine cross over tube and deposited lots of itself in the engine =
nacelle.&nbsp;=20
I was watching it the whole time.&nbsp; I couldn't maneuver the plane =
fast=20
enough to avoid it.&nbsp; How could an airliner?&nbsp; From that =
experience, I=20
now aim at any goose or eschelon of geese on an converging path, =
expecting them=20
to dive out of the way&nbsp;as I get closer.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Jabe Luttrell</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dmattreeves@yahoo.com =
href=3D"mailto:mattreeves@yahoo.com">Matt=20
  Reeves</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dlml@lancaironline.net=20
  href=3D"mailto:lml@lancaironline.net">lml@lancaironline.net</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, January 16, 2009 =
10:41=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [LML] GEESE</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>Opinion by <SPAN class=3Dyshortcuts =
id=3Dlw_1232115060_0>Matt=20
  Reeves</SPAN>:<BR><BR>FLOCKS OF <SPAN class=3Dyshortcuts =
id=3Dlw_1232114519_0=20
  style=3D"CURSOR: pointer; BORDER-BOTTOM: rgb(0,102,204) 1px =
dashed"><SPAN=20
  class=3Dyshortcuts id=3Dlw_1232115060_1>GEESE</SPAN></SPAN> FLY SLOW =
and usually=20
  in a "V" shape, AND ARE EASY TO SEE ON A BLUE SKY DAY - AND ARE =
sometimes=20
  DETECTABLE ON RADAR both on airplanes and on the ground.&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Pilots=20
  WERE heros once plane hit the flock, but COULD have the collision with =
geese=20
  been avoided and the answer may be YES.&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;<BR><BR>It =
is=20
  possible that NEITHER pilot was looking straight out the window =
because the=20
  airplane was on an <SPAN class=3Dyshortcuts id=3Dlw_1232114519_1><SPAN =

  class=3Dyshortcuts id=3Dlw_1232115060_2>instrument flight =
plan</SPAN></SPAN> =3D=20
  meaning, controllers on the ground were responsible for aircraft=20
  separation.&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR><BR>ALSO, this aircraft floated for enough =
time to=20
  save the passengers and did not break apart mainly because of pilot =
skill=20
  bringing it down to a shallow angle of impact at the slowest possible =
airspeed=20
  above stall speed AND it is built out of CARBON FIBER which is =
significantly=20
  LIGHTER and stronger than aluminum and more flexible AND more seamless =

  preventing instant flooding, thus saving lives (sorry RV guys). &nbsp; =

  <BR><BR>Baggage and landing gear compartments sealed with air also =
helped=20
  buoyancy.&nbsp; PILOTS WERE HEROS in saving lives, but the accident =
MAY have=20
  been avoidable simply by <SPAN class=3Dyshortcuts =
id=3Dlw_1232114519_2>looking out=20
  the window</SPAN>.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Future geese avoidance may =
include horns=20
  on aircraft, much like deer horns on cars, radar, and simply looking =
out the=20
  window on the departure and arrival checklists.&nbsp; =
&nbsp;<BR><BR>This=20
  aircraft was on an <SPAN class=3Dyshortcuts id=3Dlw_1232114519_3><SPAN =

  class=3Dyshortcuts id=3Dlw_1232115060_3=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: none transparent scroll repeat 0% 0%; CURSOR: =
pointer; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: =
-moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial">IFR=20
  flight plan</SPAN></SPAN> meaning looking out the window was not =
required by=20
  the pilots since the controllers on the ground were responsible for =
separating=20
  aircraft.&nbsp;&nbsp; However, at low altitude, at geese <SPAN=20
  class=3Dyshortcuts id=3Dlw_1232114519_4=20
  style=3D"CURSOR: pointer; BORDER-BOTTOM: rgb(0,102,204) 1px =
dashed"><SPAN=20
  class=3Dyshortcuts id=3Dlw_1232115060_4>flight levels</SPAN></SPAN>, =
looking out=20
  the window should be mandatory.&nbsp; Most geese do not fly in=20
  clouds.<BR><BR>All points I have not seen reported.<BR><BR>What's =
next?&nbsp;=20
  Billions in research and in the end, no changes except a Goose =
Therapist Lady=20
  will make off with millions and will simply tell us the geese are =
depressed=20
  that we are taking over their skies.&nbsp; And in the end?&nbsp; I =
will marry=20
  her.<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR><B><I>marv@lancair.net</I></B> wrote:
  <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dreplbq=20
  style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: =
rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">
    <DIV id=3D_htmlarea_default_style_=20
    style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size-adjust: =
none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none">Posted=20
    for David Standish =
&lt;carbonflier@bresnan.net&gt;:<BR><BR>&nbsp;That being=20
    said I still need a couple more pilots to get Pete to come out to=20
    <BR>Montana this summer.&nbsp;&nbsp;Montana is a great place to=20
    fly.&nbsp;&nbsp;Lots of room for <BR>training.&nbsp;&nbsp;Billings =
is a=20
    great small city.&nbsp;&nbsp;Yellowstone Park is =
nearby.&nbsp;&nbsp;And a=20
    <BR>local FBO has agreed to discount fuel.&nbsp;&nbsp;Please contact =
me if=20
    you are <BR>interested.<BR>&nbsp;<BR>&nbsp;David=20
    =
Standish<BR>&nbsp;<BR>&nbsp;<BR>&nbsp;<BR>&nbsp;<BR>&nbsp;flypetezacc@aol=
.com=20
    wrote:<BR>&gt; **<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The root problem is getting the =
message=20
    out to those that think they <BR>&gt; do not need =
training.&nbsp;&nbsp;43%=20
    of the accidents are people with less than <BR>&gt; 100 hours in=20
    type.&nbsp;&nbsp;But, there is a very large number of accidents =
<BR>&gt;=20
    from people with 5000-20000 hours.&nbsp;&nbsp;The ease of receiving =
training=20
    has <BR>&gt; never been easier I implore those that do not need =
training to=20
    get it <BR>&gt; anyway!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Grassroots effort. Go down =
the=20
    hangar row and let the lancair pilot <BR>&gt; know why its important =
to get=20
    training from ANY qualified <BR>&gt; instructor. help make 2009 the =
safest=20
    year for Lancair pilots.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Thank you,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; =
Peter=20
    Zaccagnino<BR>&gt; HP-AT.com, Inc<BR>&gt; 1046 River Ave<BR>&gt; =
Flemington,=20
    NJ 08822<BR>&gt; 908 391 2001<BR><BR></DIV>
    <DIV></DIV><PRE>--<BR><BR>For archives and unsub =
http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><B=
R>
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