X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2009 10:35:43 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from web62508.mail.re1.yahoo.com ([69.147.75.100] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.11) with SMTP id 3409011 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sat, 03 Jan 2009 10:10:29 -0500 Received: (qmail 83801 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Jan 2009 15:10:27 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID; b=jFfGUFW0pK5ix6T9c9a++yF4Dcvk5N4TGZnrycEopVsB/IHZZ7R/fjfv6ohugYY6rEcIQowVQti/iKpagFsVoAwpjCINLgKuqX86RwUsrVAemgi/LJ50bj4xqyQkl5E+64IVd7Kr5NWwEXOoFmXIhUQHitcYp6n7YP21N88bixY=; X-YMail-OSG: XYPvqz0VM1k97RN_pzrgG8nPBPND8tvYGeNYOA_KPqB.YpaS8E95n0xvSxXXBl_cJLXWsn7V8i.WLb3QxIxh0fp7mx9B_7.mrNgvvVJPaq1Z12k6OpasudJ34_9K1MMqHpfBUjBoowRFUxUiiF9XfONHVVfP9opr7a_Gm9j9OXp.4OAk9zGMjt1A8YgBNT.tQvphqz2m3X1NaXNnTS2rZWuGCQ-- Received: from [97.104.165.236] by web62508.mail.re1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 03 Jan 2009 07:10:27 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.260.1 X-Original-Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 07:10:27 -0800 (PST) From: Charlie Kohler Subject: Re: [LML] FW: reversing MT X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-368109140-1230995427=:82138" X-Original-Message-ID: <342925.82138.qm@web62508.mail.re1.yahoo.com> --0-368109140-1230995427=:82138 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Compare the following against an aluminum alloy prop. =A0 Why Choose an MT prop for the Lancair IV??? =A0 Less Weight.=A0 After all, why did we choose a Carbon Fiber airplane? Light= er is faster, Right? Why violate that principle, when it comes to the prop?= ?? =A0 =A0But here are more facts that validate the =93lighter is better =93 Espec= ially when it comes to props! 1.=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Polar moment of inertia is about =BD of a metal blade. Tr= anslates- Less stress on hub. 2.=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Less gyroscopic loads on crankshaft flange/ engine mounts= / firewall engine mounts in turbulence. =A0 Wood construction gives MANY advantages over metal as a material choice. 1.=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 No resonate frequencies. No finite life. Can be serviced = unlimited times 2.=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 No fatigue characteristics. 3.=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Field repairable.=A0 New stainless steel leading edge ero= sion strips can be installed after a stone strike for minimal cost. Wood da= mage can be repaired, and returned to service. 4.=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Tip strike (Gear collapse), would not normally break inte= rnal engine parts. Boy, can this save a bundle of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.=20 5.=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Balance easier. Uses less weight. 6.=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Smoother/ Quieter/ with less vibration. 7.=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 MT blades fared better than metal blades in bird strike t= ests at the University of Dayton. 8.=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Lightning strikes tests show perfect behavior. 9.=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Icing resistant. No engine heat translated to prop blade. =A0 =A0 Additional reasons that MT is a Superior Company to deal with. 1.=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Spinner is provided -- and fitted. Kevlar =93chrome=94 no= upkeep spinner available.=20 2.=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Saves many hours time and has no wobbles. 3.=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 German Engineering=A0=A0=A0=20 =A0 Charlie K. See=A0me on the Web at=A0 www.Lancair-IV.com --- On Sat, 1/3/09, Fred Moreno wrote: From: Fred Moreno Subject: [LML] FW: reversing MT To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Saturday, January 3, 2009, 6:58 AM Jeff wrote: "...The composite MT prop (even with the nickel leading edge) takes=20 a beating and gets pitted easily. Making this a reversing prop (that=20 is, going into Beta) invites heavy ingestion of rocks and debris=20 sucked back up into the prop after it passes over them..." I can not comment on the reversing prop, but can confirm that the MT props have nearly zero tolerance for even small rocks and bits of small gravel that may be picked up. The leading edge sheath is very thin, and backed up with wood. Thus it does not take much to make a big dent, much bigger than would occur with an all metal blade.=20 With the MT prop, if the dent in the leading edge is less than about a quarter of an inch wide, AND a tap test completed around the ding with a large coin AT EVERY PREFLIGHT shows no hollow areas, they you are good to go. More than a quarter of an inch, or any area of hollow sound, particularly one that grows over time, means the prop is not flight worthy, and has to go to an MT dealer for an expensive and time consuming repair. = =20 The quote for restoring three blades to new conditions was eight weeks and nearly half the purchase price of the prop. Once repaired, the same damage can occur on the next flight if the little stone with your name on it happens to be in the right place. =20 I punted instead. Consider the MT to be viable on clean (preferably swept) paved runways, taxiways, hangar areas and run up areas. Or keep a spare prop if you can not tolerate several weeks of shipping and repair time. MT is slow to ship the sheaths and repair kits that include special epoxy and vacuum bagging supplies to put the new sheath on the blade. After that a lot of time-consuming hand finishing and painting are required to complete the repair. Don't forget that you need a crate for the round trip as well.=20 If you get that rock at a strip far from home, you will have to leave the airplane and catch a kerosene burner. I concur that if you want a reversing prop, you should stay on very clean pavement with NO loose stones present. Also, avoid all winter-time ice tha= t might be flicked up to eat a leading edge sheath. But if you operate off pristine, clean pavement, then more than likely, you do not need a reversin= g prop.=20 Fred Moreno, ex-MT prop operator -- For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html --0-368109140-1230995427=:82138 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Compare the following against an aluminu= m alloy prop.

 

Why Choose an MT prop for the Lancair IV???=

&nb= sp;

Less Wei= ght.  After all, why did we c= hoose a Carbon Fiber airplane? Lighter is faster, Right? Why violate that p= rinciple, when it comes to the prop???

&nb= sp;

 But here are more facts that validat= e the =93lighter is better =93 Especially when it comes to props!

1.&= nbsp;     Polar moment of inertia is about =BD of= a metal blade. Translates- Less stress on hub.

2.&= nbsp;     Less gyroscopic loads on crankshaft fla= nge/ engine mounts/ firewall engine mounts in turbulence.=

&nb= sp;

Wood con= struction gives MANY advantages over metal as a material choice.=

1.&= nbsp;     No resonate frequencies. No finite life= . Can be serviced unlimited times

2.&= nbsp;     No fatigue characteristics.<= /SPAN>

3.&= nbsp;     Field repairable.  New stainless steel leading edge erosion strips c= an be installed after a stone strike for minimal cost. Wood damage can be r= epaired, and returned to service.

4.&= nbsp;     Tip strike (Gear collapse), would not n= ormally break internal engine parts. Boy, can this save a bundle of $$$$$$$= $$$$$$$$.

5.&= nbsp;     Balance easier. Uses less weight.<= /o:p>

6.&= nbsp;     Smoother/ Quieter/ with less vibration.=

7.&= nbsp;     MT blades fared better than metal blade= s in bird strike tests at the University of Day= ton.

8.&= nbsp;     Lightning strikes tests show perfect be= havior.

9.&= nbsp;     Icing resistant. No engine heat transla= ted to prop blade.

&nb= sp;

&nb= sp;

Addition= al reasons that MT is a Superior Company to deal with.

1.&= nbsp;     Spinner is provided -- and fitted. Kevl= ar =93chrome=94 no upkeep spinner available.

2.&= nbsp;     Saves many hours time and has no wobble= s.

3.&= nbsp;     German Engineering   



 
Charlie K.
See me on the Web at  www.Lancair-IV.com


--- On Sat, 1/3/09, Fred Moreno <fredmor= eno@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
From: Fred Moreno <fredmoreno@optusnet.com.au><= BR>Subject: [LML] FW: reversing MT
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Date: Sa= turday, January 3, 2009, 6:58 AM

Jeff wrote:

"...The composite MT prop (even with the nickel leading edge) takes=20
a beating and gets pitted easily.  Making this a reversing prop (that=20
is, going into Beta) invites heavy ingestion of rocks and debris=20
sucked back up into the prop after it passes over them..."

I can not comment on the reversing prop, but can confirm that the MT props
have nearly zero tolerance for even small rocks and bits of small gravel
that may be picked up.  The leading edge sheath is very thin, and backed up
with wood.  Thus it does not take much to make a big dent, much bigger than
would occur with an all metal blade.=20

With the MT prop, if the dent in the leading edge is less than about a
quarter of an inch wide, AND a tap test completed around the ding with a
large coin AT EVERY PREFLIGHT shows no hollow areas, they you are good to
go.  More than a quarter of an inch, or any area of hollow sound,
particularly one that grows over time, means the prop is not flight worthy,
and has to go to an MT dealer for an expensive and time consuming repair. =
=20

The quote for restoring three blades to new conditions was eight weeks and
nearly half the purchase price of the prop.  Once repaired, the same damage
can occur on the next flight if the little stone with your name on it
happens to be in the right place.  =20

I punted instead.

Consider the MT to be viable on clean (preferably swept) paved runways,
taxiways, hangar areas and run up areas.  Or keep a spare prop if you can
not tolerate several weeks of shipping and repair time.  MT is slow to ship
the sheaths and repair kits that include special epoxy and vacuum bagging
supplies to put the new sheath on the blade.  After that a lot of
time-consuming hand finishing and painting are required to complete the
repair.   Don't forget that you need a crate for the round trip as well.=20
If
you get that rock at a strip far from home, you will have to leave the
airplane and catch a kerosene burner.

I concur that if you want a reversing prop, you should stay on very clean
pavement with NO loose stones present.  Also, avoid all winter-time ice tha=
t
might be flicked up to eat a leading edge sheath.   But if you operate off
pristine, clean pavement, then more than likely, you do not need a reversin=
g
prop.=20

Fred Moreno, ex-MT prop operator



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