X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 00:50:58 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from vms173007pub.verizon.net ([206.46.173.7] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.10) with ESMTP id 3350857 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 09 Dec 2008 11:33:54 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=206.46.173.7; envelope-from=skipslater@verizon.net Received: from SkipPC ([72.28.148.228]) by vms173007.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0KBM00973B9D8NR3@vms173007.mailsrvcs.net> for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 09 Dec 2008 10:32:03 -0600 (CST) X-Original-Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2008 08:33:15 -0800 From: "Skip Slater" Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Nose tire mystery In-reply-to: X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" X-Original-Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6001.18049 X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6001.18000 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0085_01C959D8.C7B51070" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0085_01C959D8.C7B51070 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Grayhawk, One thing the ES has that most other Lancairs don't is a nosegear = fairing which serves as an inverted stovepipe for heated air coming out = of the cowl. This tends to considerably heat up the strut, even on cold = days. One unwanted side effect of this is the warming of the fork oil = in the strut which lessens the viscosity and can make it more prone to = shimmy. Unless Jim's flight was very short, I think it's unlikely a cold = strut was a factor. Skip Slater N540ES=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Sky2high@aol.com=20 To: lml@lancaironline.net=20 Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 5:43 AM Subject: [LML] Re: Nose tire mystery Jim, Bear me out. If I remember right, you would have been flying an ES = (Gear floxed into the extended position). When you took off, the low pressure in the strut never allowed the = strut to fully extend (cold). It might be possible that you immediately = entered a crab on liftoff and the centering mechanism never straightened = it out. On the other hand, assuming that the strut never was fully = extended, while the x-wind at ground level was a mere 7 kts, it may have = been more on the long straight in (?) approach and perhaps you were = flying in a right crab while the nose wheel pant was aerodynamically = flying the line to the runway. When you touched down, the fluid/seal = held the nose wheel frozen, pointed to the left. It took some force to = break it free. The first time out in cold weather can affect tubeless tire leaks, = hydraulic seal anomalies, etc. These usually go away after the first, = uh, gremlin strike. They also go away on flights to the far south. Grayhawk Seeking explanations for the unexplainable. =20 In a message dated 12/8/2008 1:08:42 P.M. Central Standard Time, = marv@lancair.net writes: Posted for "Jim Scales" : Need some help figuring this one out. =20 Flew a couple of days ago and had an interesting experience on = landing. I=20 have attached some pictures to help explain what happened. =20 Landed with slight RH crosswind. Touch down speed was about 75. = Everything=20 looked fine, right tire touched down, left tire touched down, nose = touched=20 down and plane immediately pulled to left. =20 Figured I must have landed with some brake pressure on left pedal. = Released=20 left pedal, made no difference, plane pulling hard to left while = main tires=20 begin to skid. =20 Begin to apply right rudder and brake. Helped but not enough. = Locked up=20 right brake, plane began to swerve back to the right. Main tires = started=20 skidding in other direction and plane started to rotate to the = right. =20 Released right brake as the nose came back toward alignment with = center of=20 runway. Plane straightened out, I slowed down, turned off, taxied = back to=20 hanger with no further problems (other that that shorts issue we all = talk=20 about). =20 Conditions at the time of the flight: +2C on ground, -5C at level = I was=20 flying for about 20 minutes prior to the landing, 7kt wind from 320 = while I=20 was landing on 27. =20 During preflight I had noticed tires needed some air but not any = different=20 than some other flights. Cold weather had come in since last flight = and tires=20 lost some pressure. =20 I also noticed the nose strut was down some. The normal 3-1/2 = spacing was=20 about 2-1/2. Again not that unusual. Have flown with this spacing = on a few=20 occasions with no problem. =20 When I checked everything after the flight I found the main tires = to be at 45=20 pounds, the nose tire at 25 and the spacing on the strut at about = 1-3/4. No=20 flat spots on any of the tires. I was puzzled by the height = reduction on the=20 strut.=20 =20 The strut was rebuilt in October. This is the first really cold = day I had=20 flown it since then.=20 =20 I have some thoughts about what the problem could be/have been. I = would=20 really like to hear what you folks have to say. =20 I serviced the tires and inflated the strut. I have flown it twice = since=20 then with four landings and no problems. =20 Thanks in advance for the help. I must say that ten years of = racing stock=20 cars on dirt tracks made a big difference in how this turned out. I = was=20 fortunate. =20 I am very interested in finding out what happened. =20 Jim Scales =20 Note: The pictures may not load in sequence (proper sequence is = 02, 17, 39,=20 19, 19, 40, 18, 10) so you should look at them from the point of = view of the=20 landing sequence and roll out. You will see the lines as the nose = tire=20 touches down on the center line then progresses to the left. You = will see the=20 main tires start to skid then the nose tire appear to straighten = out. The=20 next will be the RH brake locking and the plane coming back toward = the center. =20 =20 -- For archives and unsub = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites = in one place. Try it now. ------=_NextPart_000_0085_01C959D8.C7B51070 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Grayhawk,
   One thing the ES has that most other Lancairs don't is = a=20 nosegear fairing which serves as an inverted stovepipe for heated air = coming out=20 of the cowl.  This tends to considerably heat up the strut, even on = cold=20 days.  One unwanted side effect of this is the warming of = the=20 fork oil in the strut which lessens the viscosity and can make it more = prone to=20 shimmy.
   Unless Jim's flight was very short, I think it's = unlikely a=20 cold strut was a factor.
   Skip Slater
   N540ES 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Sky2high@aol.com=20
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, = 2008 5:43=20 AM
Subject: [LML] Re: Nose tire=20 mystery

Jim,
 
Bear me out.  If I remember right, you would have been = flying an ES=20 (Gear floxed into the extended position).
 
When you took off, the low pressure in the strut never allowed = the strut=20 to fully extend (cold). It might be possible that you immediately = entered a=20 crab on liftoff and the centering mechanism never straightened it = out.  On the other hand, assuming that the strut never was fully=20 extended, while the x-wind at ground level was a mere 7 kts, it may = have been=20 more on the long straight in (?) approach and perhaps you were=20 flying in a right crab while the nose wheel pant was = aerodynamically=20 flying the line to the runway.  When you touched down, the = fluid/seal=20 held the nose wheel frozen, pointed to the left.  It took some = force to=20 break it free.
 
The first time out in cold weather can affect tubeless tire = leaks,=20 hydraulic seal anomalies, etc.  These usually go away after the = first,=20 uh, gremlin strike.  They also go away on flights to the far = south.
 
Grayhawk
 
Seeking explanations for the unexplainable. 
 
In a message dated 12/8/2008 1:08:42 P.M. Central Standard Time,=20 marv@lancair.net writes:
Posted for "Jim = Scales"=20 <joscales98@hotmail.com>:

 Need some help figuring = this=20 one out.
 
Flew a couple of days ago and had an = interesting=20 experience on landing.  I
have attached some pictures = to help=20 explain what happened.
 
 Landed with slight RH=20 crosswind.  Touch down speed was about 75. Everything =
looked=20 fine, right tire touched down, left tire touched down, nose touched =
down=20 and plane immediately pulled to left.
 
Figured I must = have=20 landed with some brake pressure on left pedal.  Released =
left=20 pedal, made no difference, plane pulling hard to left while main = tires=20
begin to skid.
 
 Begin to apply right rudder = and=20 brake.  Helped but not enough.  Locked up =
right=20 brake, plane began to swerve back to the right.  Main = tires=20 started
skidding in other direction and plane started to rotate = to the=20 right.
 
 Released right brake as the nose came back = toward=20 alignment with center of
runway.  Plane straightened = out, I=20 slowed down, turned off, taxied back to
hanger with no further = problems=20 (other that that shorts issue we all talk=20
about).
 
 Conditions at the time of the=20 flight:  +2C on ground, -5C at level I was
flying for = about 20=20 minutes prior to the landing, 7kt wind from 320 while I
was = landing on=20 27.
 
 During preflight I had noticed tires needed = some air=20 but not any different
than some other flights.  Cold = weather=20 had come in since last flight and tires
lost some=20 pressure.
 
 I also noticed the nose strut was down=20 some.  The normal 3-1/2 spacing was
about=20 2-1/2.  Again not that unusual.  Have flown with = this=20 spacing on a few
occasions with no = problem.
 
 When I=20 checked everything after the flight I found the main tires to be at = 45=20
pounds, the nose tire at 25 and the spacing on the strut at = about=20 1-3/4.  No
flat spots on any of the = tires.  I was=20 puzzled by the height reduction on the
strut. =
 
 The=20 strut was rebuilt in October.  This is the first really = cold day I=20 had
flown it since then.
 
 I have some = thoughts about=20 what the problem could be/have been. I would
really like to hear = what=20 you folks have to say.
 
 I serviced the tires and = inflated=20 the strut.  I have flown it twice since
then with four = landings and no problems.
 
 Thanks in advance for = the=20 help.  I must say that ten years of racing stock
cars = on dirt=20 tracks made a big difference in how this turned out.  I = was=20
fortunate.
 
 I am very interested in finding = out what=20 happened.
 
 Jim=20 Scales
 
 Note:  The pictures may not load = in=20 sequence (proper sequence is 02, 17, 39,
19, 19, 40, 18, 10) so = you=20 should look at them from the point of view of the
landing = sequence and=20 roll out.  You will see the lines as the nose tire =
touches=20 down on the center line then progresses to the left.  You = will see=20 the
main tires start to skid then the nose tire appear to = straighten=20 out.  The
next will be the RH brake locking and the = plane=20 coming back toward the=20 center.
 
 


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