Mailing List lml@lancaironline.net Message #49709
From: Bill Hannahan <wfhannahan@yahoo.com>
Sender: <marv@lancaironline.net>
Subject: Re: [LML] Tank vent.
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2008 18:21:05 -0500
To: <lml@lancaironline.net>


 

Regarding this comment;

 

“You guys are too well educated with all your calculations. You are confusing yourselves and each other. Look at other aircraft in the hangar, they all work well some have 3/8"  and some 1/4".…  Stop your intellectual aerobatics and get on withthe job.”

 

 

The Boeing 747 racked up a lot of hours before a center fuel tank on one blew up. Did those hours prove that the fuel system was risk free? No.

 

The Concord only had one accident, but the Concord accident RATE, accidents per billion miles, was much worse than for the 747. Did the accident free hours prove that the Concord could survive a tire failure? No.

 

Lancairs have a much higher accident rate than the Concord. Do those accidents prove that all engineering risk factors have been identified and eliminated? No.

 

In the course of blogging for a rational energy policy I have received countless disparaging remarks over the years. I understand that they are a reflection on their author. Many Lancair builders are thoughtful intelligent people with good ideas, but some are more sensitive and choose not to participate to avoid deprecating responses.

 

The problem is that their missing input makes my life and your life more dangerous than they need to be. So if you find yourself writing a flaming comment, save yourself some embarrassment and do us all a favor by not clicking the send button.

 

We have not talked much about fuel tank vent systems, but our lives depend on them. They deserve a full analysis that includes all possible conditions, not just straight and level.

 

In a worst case emergency like fire in the cockpit, I would lower the gear and descend at near red line speed. I expect a sink rate in the range of 6,000 – 10,000 fpm. If a wing tank is empty I would expect to see it being crushed in the lower altitudes. No good choices there.

 

How many Lancairs have made an emergency maximum rate descent from high altitude to sea level with an empty wing tank, any volunteers?

 

“I was thinking about putting 3/8 vent line in my header tank (under construction) but the opposite question is --- would it over pressure the tank?”

 

Under steady state conditions the pressure depends largely on the angle of the vent opening with respect to the wind as explained by .

 

“The vent can act much like a pitot tube and easily capture most if not all of the available ram pressure.  Our wings show visible deformation, even under just one psi.  Lung pressure is enough to see it.  ….  In flight I could see the ribs as my skins were bulging under pressure.  Attaching an airspeed indicator to the vent line indicated almost full ram pressure.  I began filing the underside until pressure drop to just a few tenths of a psi.”

 

Like Chris, I reduced the angle on my vents to  about 10 deg to avoid excessive tank pressure.

 

At 300 mph CAS, the dynamic pressure is 60.9 inches of water, 30 psi, 4,305 pounds per square foot. We do not want that kind of pressure trying to blow the skins off our wings. I do not know how efficient the NACA vents on LIV wing tip vents are at converting airspeed to pressure. It is probably highly dependent on the exact location and orientation of the vent. I would like to see some data on that.

 

“Any hole in your airplane should be as small as possible in order to get it's job done.”

 

Not true. The smallest possible hole is no hole at all. Each hole has an optimum size based on its function and environment.

 

Bill Hannahan


--- On Fri, 11/28/08, Ian Crowe <ian.crowe@sympatico.ca> wrote:
From: Ian Crowe <ian.crowe@sympatico.ca>
Subject: [LML] Tank vent.
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Date: Friday, November 28, 2008, 1:25 PM

You guys are too well educated with all your calculations. You are confusing yourselves and each other. Look at other aircraft in the hangar, they all work well some have 3/8"  and some 1/4". Some face forward others are just proud of the wing and have a 45degree chamfer.
 
I have a Lancair 360 with the extended fuel tanks and the 3/8" vent goes from the outboard tank to atmosphere.  Never a problem, fuel flows keep the engine purring and the wings show no signs of collapse!!!!!
 
Stop your intellectual aerobatics and get on withthe job.
 
Happy Thanksgiving from a Canadian cousin.
 
Ian B.  Crowe
LNC 2 C-FKRO

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