X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 11:48:01 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.35] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.6) with ESMTP id 3093465 for lml@lancaironline.net; Mon, 25 Aug 2008 20:20:37 -0400 Received: from RMiller904@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r10.8.) id q.bcc.35835288 (42805) for ; Mon, 25 Aug 2008 20:20:32 -0400 (EDT) From: RMiller904@aol.com X-Original-Message-ID: X-Original-Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 20:20:32 EDT Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Training X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1219710032" X-Mailer: Unknown sub 34 X-Spam-Flag:NO -------------------------------1219710032 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I teach in both and the insurance companies allow me to do so, you dont have to have Lancair training coarse to be a CFI for them, if you have enough time in them and the insurance companies will except you then that is it. Give me a call, I have not had any complaints yet, or at least not from any customers. Ron _www.ronsflying.com_ (http://www.ronsflying.com/) In a message dated 8/25/2008 6:15:00 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, flycassutts@yahoo.com writes: Great suggestion Ted! Anyone else have ideas that would help Joe and Lancair? While I am not sure of the numbers, something to consider, why does maybe only 50% of the Lancair comunity have insurance? Why do owners not get training sufficient to keep them safe? Is it cost? Is it accessability/convenience to training? I don't feel that HPAT is doing the job that Joe/Lancair intended and has a monopoly in the training arena with Lancair and the insurance companies. The problem as I see it is that they are hard to get ahold of for scheduling and they charge too much. You have basically two choices with HPAT. They come to you or you go to them for training. If they come to you, you are billed for the instructors travel. If you go to them it requires several days of your time as you travel to a location convenient for HPAT. Neither choice may be cost effective or convenient for most of us. I feel that there is a need for more locations around the country with flight schools authorized by Lancair and recognized by the insurance companies to provide training. I am saying that training needs to be more accessable and the cost more reasonable. I believe this will encourage training and more frequent training. For some once a year may not be enough. If I could have easier access, I would get training every six months just as I do for instrument currency in the Cirrus. My instrument training is done with a Cirrus authorized instructor in the Cirrus or Cirrus Sim. Also, I do not believe that training with any CFI is safe. If the CFI doesn't know the Lancair and the envelope in which it is safe to operate, this is true of any high performance aircraft, then that CFI should not be used. However, a CFI with a resume acceptable to Joe/Lancair could receive training at Lancair then return to their flight school with a training program developed by Lancair. This is the same process that Cirrus uses and they are a leader in developing training programs speciffic to the Cirrus to keep the pilots current and safe. Does anyone have any thoughts to improve on this idea? Art --- On Sat, 8/23/08, Ted Noel wrote: From: Ted Noel Subject: [LML] Training To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Saturday, August 23, 2008, 7:49 PM Airline pilots now train in sims due to the cost of flying giant aluminum clouds. My local FBO has a Motus Motion Sim, but it doesn't have any Lancairs in its repertoire. But for a 172, it's $100 per hour cheaper, and it's tougher than the real thing. If you're proficient in it, you're ready. Translate to home. When I was taking my IFR training, I was flying club 172's. At the same time, I was flying IFT-PRO (tells you how long back) at home. My instructor was amazed at my progress. I passed on the first ride after a near-minimum hours training sequence. This tells me that home sims (now a LOT better than IFT-PRO) can take us a long way to maintaining proficiency, even if they're not loggable hours. If Lancair was to prepare a faithful aerodynamic model of its aircraft for MSFS or X-Plane, they could release it through a proxy. It could even be a bit unforgiving around the stall. We could crash a few times at home while learning a lot. We could even fly into Pitkin County in low weather. The company could disavow any knowledge while providing us with a valuable training aid. Are you listening, Joe? Ted Noel N540TF **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) -------------------------------1219710032 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I teach in both and the insurance companies allow me to do so, you dont= =20 have to have Lancair training coarse to be a CFI for them, if you have enoug= h=20 time in them and the insurance companies will except you then that is it. Gi= ve=20 me a call, I have not had any complaints yet, or at least not from any=20 customers.  Ron
 
www.ronsflying.com
 =20
 
In a message dated 8/25/2008 6:15:00 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,=20 flycassutts@yahoo.com writes:
<= FONT=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size= =3D3>



It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find=20= your travel deal here.
-------------------------------1219710032--
Great suggestion Ted!  Anyone else have ideas that would h= elp=20 Joe and Lancair? 
 
While I am not sure of the numbers, something to=20 consider, why does maybe only 50% of the Lancair comunity have=20 insurance?  Why do owners not get training sufficient to keep t= hem=20 safe?  Is it cost?  Is it accessability/convenience to=20 training?
 
I don't feel that HPAT is doing the job that Joe/Lancair intend= ed=20 and has a monopoly in the training arena with Lancair and the insura= nce=20 companies.  The problem as I see it is that they are hard to ge= t=20 ahold of for scheduling and they charge too much.  You have=20 basically two choices with HPAT.  They come to you or you go to= =20 them for training.  If they come to you, you are billed for the= =20 instructors travel.  If you go to them it requires several days= of=20 your time as you travel to a location convenient for HPAT.  Nei= ther=20 choice may be cost effective or convenient for most of us.
 
I feel that there is a need for more locations around the=20 country with flight schools authorized by Lancair and recognize= d by=20 the insurance companies to provide training.  I am saying that=20 training needs to be more accessable and the cost more reasonable.&n= bsp;=20 I believe this will encourage training and more frequent training.&n= bsp;=20 For some once a year may not be enough.  If I could have easier= =20 access, I would get training every six months just as I do for=20 instrument currency in the Cirrus.  My instrument training is d= one=20 with a Cirrus authorized instructor in the Cirrus or Cirrus Sim.
 
Also, I do not believe that training with any CFI is safe. = ; If=20 the CFI doesn't know the Lancair and the envelope in which it is saf= e to=20 operate, this is true of any high performance aircraft, then that CF= I=20 should not be used.  However, a CFI with a resume=20 acceptable to Joe/Lancair could receive training at Lancair the= n=20 return to their flight school with a training program developed by=20 Lancair.  This is the same process that Cirrus uses and they ar= e a=20 leader in developing training programs speciffic to the Cirrus to ke= ep=20 the pilots current and safe.
 
Does anyone have any thoughts to improve on this idea?
 
Art

--- On Sat, 8/23/08, Ted Noel=20 <tednoel@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
From:=20 Ted Noel <tednoel@cfl.rr.com>
Subject: [LML] Training
= To:=20 lml@lancaironline.net
Date: Saturday, August 23, 2008, 7:49=20 PM

Airline pilots now train in sims due to th= e cost=20 of flying giant aluminum clouds. My local FBO has a Motus Motion S= im,=20 but it doesn't have any Lancairs in its repertoire. But for a 172,= =20 it's $100 per hour cheaper, and it's tougher than the real thing.=20= If=20 you're proficient in it, you're ready.
 
Translate to home.
 
When I was taking my IFR training, I was f= lying=20 club 172's. At the same time, I was flying IFT-PRO (tells you how=20= long=20 back) at home. My instructor was amazed at my progress. I passed o= n=20 the first ride after a near-minimum hours training sequence. This=20 tells me that home sims (now a LOT better than IFT-PRO) can take u= s a=20 long way to maintaining proficiency, even if they're not loggable=20 hours.
 
If Lancair was to prepare a faithful aerod= ynamic=20 model of its aircraft for MSFS or X-Plane, they could release it=20 through a proxy. It could even be a bit unforgiving around the sta= ll.=20 We could crash a few times at home while learning a lot. We could=20= even=20 fly into Pitkin County in low weather. The company could disavow a= ny=20 knowledge while providing us with a valuable training=20 aid.
 
Are you listening, Joe?
 
Ted Noel
N540TF