X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 19:51:28 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from mta21.charter.net ([216.33.127.81] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.3) with ESMTP id 2929453 for lml@lancaironline.net; Mon, 19 May 2008 16:44:23 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=216.33.127.81; envelope-from=farnsworth@charter.net Received: from aarprv04.charter.net ([10.20.200.74]) by mta21.charter.net (InterMail vM.7.08.03.00 201-2186-126-20070710) with ESMTP id <20080519204337.TEVD23078.mta21.charter.net@aarprv04.charter.net> for ; Mon, 19 May 2008 16:43:37 -0400 Received: from Farnsworth ([75.139.158.86]) by aarprv04.charter.net with ESMTP id <20080519204337.ECBQ4495.aarprv04.charter.net@Farnsworth> for ; Mon, 19 May 2008 16:43:37 -0400 From: "farnsworth" X-Original-To: "'Lancair Mailing List'" Subject: RE: [LML] Re: Turn back to the Airport after engine failure X-Original-Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 16:49:00 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0098_01C8B9D0.3D42C020" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: Aci53qo8cJEk3+L6SqGSRyCp+ujaEAACET/g X-Original-Message-Id: <20080519204337.ECBQ4495.aarprv04.charter.net@Farnsworth> X-Chzlrs: 0 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0098_01C8B9D0.3D42C020 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey Dom, I certainly agree with you there are issues with this subject. I was once asked by a flight attendant what would happen if ALL of our hydraulic pressure for the flight controls was lost. I just told her that was the day she was going to die; but not to worry because I would die before she did. (Of course, the United Airlines crew of the DC-10 showed that there are possible exceptions). I don't think I am God's gift to anything (I hope that doesn't mean I'm not really a pilot) (: but I do have my opinions about many things. There is a time during departure where few options are available. However as to your bet that the time (distance) required to reach the right altitude for a return to the departure airport puts that airport out of reach even if a 180 degree turn can be successfully executed it, again, depends on several factors. I can only speak for the capability of my airplane but my "dead man zone is very brief. I have a climb rate of over 5,000 FPM at the following weight/airspeed/power: Weight: 2224 lbs Climb Speed: 140 Kts IAS Power: 2700 RPM/38" MP I can reach 1,000' AGL in about 12 seconds. I will have traveled about 2,800' down track. That doesn't put me beyond the departure airport. My rate of descent with the prop feathered is about 600 FPM that gives me about 1 minute and 40 seconds to impact. I will have traveled a little over 10, 000' over the ground (at 135 kts). My airport has three runways, which reduces the number of degrees to turn to find a smooth surface for landing. Even if you can't get aligned with a runway, airports generally offer more relatively flat surfaces than other places. There is a "dead man zone" but when you aren't in it don't act as if you are. It is for each to determine the size of that "dead man zone" as it applies to his/her situation. Shoot, I like it better when I had an ejection seat. I even still wear a parachute when I fly alone and I don't joust with Thor! Lynn Farnsworth Super Legacy #235 TSIO-550 Powered Race 44 Feathering Prop _____ From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Dominic V Crain Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 2:31 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Re: Turn back to the Airport after engine failure Lynn, me ol' China - no one is shouting the idea down. There ARE issues with this procedure and better they be aired herein, which, unless I'm mistaken, is set up for this thread as much as anything. ALL pilots think they are God's gift etc., to the business. We all think our ideas are the best. I happen to dispute this procedure as being a wise mindset, as I think the evidence is that, practice or not, the end result is more fatal than not. But deny Bill or anyone else his right to debate, is equally unwise. Just on one point you made, what is the right altitude? It is a fair bet that the right altitude puts you laterally beyond reach of your departure airfield, in which case it might be better to concentrate on what's ahead in the splay. Cheers Dom VH-CZJ ------=_NextPart_000_0098_01C8B9D0.3D42C020 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hey = Dom,

 

I certainly agree with you there = are issues with this subject. I was once asked by a flight attendant what = would happen if  ALL of our hydraulic pressure for the flight controls = was lost. I just told her that was the day she was going to die; but not to worry = because I would die before she did. (Of course, the United Airlines crew of the = DC-10 showed that there are possible exceptions).

 

I don’t think I am = God’s gift to anything (I hope that doesn’t mean I’m not really a = pilot) (:  but I do have my opinions about many things. There is a time during = departure where few options are available. However as to your bet that the time (distance) required to reach the right altitude for a return to the = departure airport puts that airport out of reach even if a 180 degree turn can be successfully executed it, again, depends on several = factors.

 

I can only speak for the capability = of my airplane but my “dead man zone is very brief. I have a climb rate = of over 5,000 FPM at the following = weight/airspeed/power:

 

Weight: 2224 = lbs

Climb Speed: 140 Kts = IAS

Power: 2700 RPM/38” = MP

 

I can reach 1,000’ AGL in = about 12 seconds. I will have traveled about 2,800’ down track. That = doesn’t put me beyond the departure airport. My rate of descent with the prop = feathered is about 600 FPM that gives me about 1 minute and 40 seconds to impact. = I will have traveled a little over 10, 000’ over the ground (at 135 kts). =

 

My airport has three runways, which reduces the number of degrees to turn to find a smooth surface for = landing. Even if you can’t get aligned with a runway, airports generally = offer more relatively flat surfaces than other = places.

 

There is a “dead man = zone” but when you aren’t in it don’t act as if you are. It is for = each to determine the size of that “dead man zone” as it applies to =  his/her situation.

 

Shoot, I like it better when I had = an ejection seat. I even still wear a parachute when I fly alone and I = don’t joust with Thor!

 

Lynn = Farnsworth

Super Legacy = #235

TSIO-550 = Powered

Race = 44

Feathering = Prop

 

From: = Lancair Mailing List = [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Dominic V Crain
Sent: Monday, May 19, = 2008 2:31 PM
To: = lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: Turn = back to the Airport after engine failure

 

Lynn, me ol’ = China – no one is shouting the idea down.

There ARE issues with this = procedure and better they be aired herein, which, unless I’m mistaken, is set up = for this thread as much as anything.

ALL pilots think they are = God’s gift etc., to the business. We all think our ideas are the best. I happen to = dispute this procedure as being a wise mindset, as I think the evidence is that, practice or not, the end result is more fatal than = not.

But deny Bill or anyone else his = right to debate, is equally unwise.

Just on one point you made, what = is the right altitude? It is a fair bet that the right altitude puts you = laterally beyond reach of your departure airfield, in which case it might be = better to concentrate on what’s ahead in the = splay.

Cheers

=

Dom

VH-CZJ

=

 

=

 

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