Mailing List lml@lancaironline.net Message #47289
From: <Sky2high@aol.com>
Sender: <marv@lancaironline.net>
Subject: Crash, ... and training. Engine out on takeoff.
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 08:20:13 -0400
To: <lml@lancaironline.net>
Dom, Bill, et al,
 
I love this stuff.......  The crucial part is to have a plan and review it just before taking the runway.  For me there is the fixed part and the environmental conditions part.
Fixed: Engine stoppage on takeoff below 700 U.S. feet AGL, use any reasonable surface within 30 degrees left or right of straight ahead as the return to earth target, pitch to 105 KIAS and prop to coarse unless there is room to set down on the departure runway.  Adjust anything else if there is time (speed, gear, flaps).
 
Environmental Conditions: review surrounding terrain, runway length, airport altitude, weather conditions, etc. for plan modifications.
 
The general characteristics of my takeoffs are:
Lift off around 80 KIAS (2740 RPM, WOT)
Positive climb, retract gear (by the time that is done, speed is about 100 KIAS, 100-200 feet AGL)
Flaps retract, adjust for nose down pitch (when done, speed is about 120 KIAS, 300-400 AGL)
At 700 AGL, RPM to 2600, WOT, maintain 135 to 140 KIAS, climb rate is about 1500-1800 fpm.
Continue climb to target altitude, leaning to takeoff EGTs throughout climb (about 1290 to 1300 -- my max EGTs are 1430-1440),
Level out, after reaching the usual cruise speed for target altitude, reduce MAP to 25 or run WOT, reduce RPM to 2480 (sweet spot), probably enrichen mixture a bit to cruise EGTs of 1320.
 
Dom, your numbers are very realistic to me and are close to worse case on the runway length you gave.  The most common takeoff from my home airport (KARR) is from runway 27 (6100 feet).  I think I wouldn't be halfway down that runway under the conditions you mention and dropping the gear and flaps might allow me to set back down on the runway.  After all, if I go off the end I'll just beat my way through the REIL light hardware for the ILS 9 approach.  There are farm fields within 30 degrees to the right and light manufacturing plants within 30 degrees to the left.
 
 
In a message dated 5/15/2008 2:59:13 P.M. Central Daylight Time, bill_kennedy_3@hotmail.com writes:
Dom, it's not even debatable at 200'. I'm comfortable with 500', but not much less. I can promise that if I did make a turn, I would not be a stall-spin victim.

Good thought though. My field is 3200 feet long and I'm not at 500' AGL until well past the end of the runway. Good news -- I've got a good road with very little traffic in front of me.

Fly safe -- Bill



To: lml@lancaironline.net
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 14:27:03 -0400
From: domcrain@tpg.com.au
Subject: [LML] Re: Crash, fueling nozzles and training

OK Bill – You’re on the take-off  R/W length 1000 metres (3280’). You’re at say, 200’ passing 100 KIAS Gear is UP, Flaps retracted – engine dead cuts. Where to?

I think your scenario is fine if you have a significant amount of breathing gas under, but then – can you still make the airfield?

Your scenario is seriously debatable, I believe.

Cheers mate

Dom

VH-CZJ





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