X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 11:35:42 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from mail12.syd.optusnet.com.au ([211.29.132.193] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.3) with ESMTPS id 2919536 for lml@lancaironline.net; Mon, 12 May 2008 21:39:11 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=211.29.132.193; envelope-from=fredmoreno@optusnet.com.au Received: from fred ([202.139.5.198]) (authenticated sender fredmoreno) by mail12.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id m4D1c2eW004966; Tue, 13 May 2008 11:38:11 +1000 From: "Fred Moreno" X-Original-To: "'Robert Pastusek'" , "Lancair Mail" Subject: RE: EGT Monitor Set-up X-Original-Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 09:40:08 +0800 X-Original-Message-ID: <005201c8b49a$52823f50$c6058bca@fred> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0053_01C8B4DD.60A57F50" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6822 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: Aci0hmtsP/OjkMX+SISy10fsl++XhQADP2Bg Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01C8B4DD.60A57F50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Bob:=20 =20 I have done the same for my MVP-50, and I am finally getting settings I = can live with. All my stuff is in the hangar so I will be working from = memory here. My engine is an IO-550, so the numbers except for manifold = pressure will be the same. It has proven to be a wonderful box, but it has = taken a while to get the settings right.=20 =20 Some early learning experiences: I had problems with Bitching Betty constantly saying "check engine." I had to do my initial flying with my friend and instructor Gary Burns with Betty talking in my ear. The = switch on the MVP 50 that silences Betty did not seem to work. I set the = volume down to zero and most of the alarms went away. But "Check Engine" = message still kept coming up.=20 =20 Come to find the MVP 50 to Chelton connection was sending a general = engine warning to the Chelton, and the Chelton Bitching Betty (which sounds the same) was the one still whispering in my ear saying "Check Engine." The specific alarms (Check oil pressure etc.) went away. She would come up = at engine start immediately because the oil pressure is zero. Push the = "EFIS mute" button, and she went away. Now I can restore the MVP 50 voice = which was also bitching all the time since I had the alarms set wrong.=20 =20 One can set the alarms to flash on yellow and red on the screen, and I = found this to be useful after I turned the voice off. I learned that a lot of = the settings I used caused momentary alarms. Until I got them sorted out = under various flying conditions, I kept the voice off. Too distracting. Now = when I get an alarm, the red light comes on in my face, I look over to the display, see which one is flashing, and then decide what to do which is usually nothing except to make a mental note to reset a particular = alarm.=20 =20 Momentary deviations also can drive you crazy. Example: I set my = ammeter alarms at the maximum alternator current of 60 amps. Raise the landing = gear with the lights on, and the ammeter would go momentarily to 75 or 80, = not long enough to trip the circuit breaker (which is thermal and takes a = few seconds) but the MVP 50 picks it up right away. So I have set the green band up to 70, then white, then yellow then red. Or one could set the = green up a bit. =20 =20 Ditto with voltage. I set yellow too high and after a hot start (a lot = of cranking) the voltage would stay low for a few seconds until the = alternators started to refill the batteries. Another alarm would then sound at = start up. So I set green down to 12.5 volts since my Odyssey batteries = normally are 12.3 when fully charged, but no alternator is running. I set yellow below that level, and put yellow also above 15 volts although 14.5 may = be OK. You have to experiment and watch the events as they occur to decide where you want to set a value to avoid extraneous momentary alarms. =20 Similarly with RPM. I set 2700 RPM as yellow and 2750 as red, and I = got an alarm in the middle of take off when the RPM went to 2710. Wrong = time. I reset green to 2750, and put red at 2800.=20 =20 Oil temperature took some diddling. I wanted green at 100F and above = for take off, but setting yellow below causes alarms during the entire = heating period. So use white up to 100F (or 70F for cold weather and light = oil), green up to say 210, yellow to 240, and then red. This seems to work = fine with the oil door which I have found to be useful at low power settings, = but which can be forgotten. =20 I have high compression pistons so that I have to be particularly = sensitive to detonation which can arise from high CHT. I also have cowl flaps and = so wanted warnings if I forgot to set the cowl flaps open during a go = around or climb. So I set CHT to be green to 370F, yellow to 400, and red above although the theoretical red line is 460F. It works. I forgot the cowl flaps during a go around while practicing forced landings, and I got the warning about a minute later climbing at full power at best rate. That showed the value of the warning system immediately.=20 =20 Otherwise I would use the book figures for engine except for fuel = pressure. I found that one can get high fuel pressure with high RPM and low = manifold pressure as when chopping the throttle for some reason. The fuel pump = puts out lots of flow, but the metering valve rejects it because the throttle = is pulled partially closed, and the fuel pressure can go several psig above = the normal maximum for full power climb. This triggers an alert for a few seconds until the RPM drops. So I set the green up about 5 psig over = the normal maximum fuel pressure. =20 =20 I also get alarms for EGT difference greater than 100 F during power reductions. My EGT spreads are large, so it triggers frequently. This requires a different page to reset, not one of the green yellow red settings, but one of the pages for setting the EGT scale settings on the = bar graph. Somewhere it says something about alarming when EGT difference exceeds 100F, and you can select the "100" and change the value. I = think I set it to 150F for the time being. =20 =20 I think you will have to fly a lot, watch a lot, record notes, and give = it several tries to get values you are comfortable with. Initially I = tended to set the yellow and particularly the red levels too close to actual = operating values for measurements that are not that critical (like fuel pressure) = and the stream of alarms resulting makes you immune to the alarm warnings. Better to save the alarms for the critical values, and use white (no = alarm) or green over wider ranges to prevent extraneous alarms. I am now at = the point where I get green displays virtually all of the time under normal conditions. It took several iterations. =20 I hope this helps. Let me know if I can provide further information. = Like you, I am still learning how to use these boxes, but all it takes is the instruction book and repetition, repetition, repetition. After a few = cycles it begins to stick in my memory.=20 =20 Cheers,=20 =20 Fred =20 -----Original Message----- From: Robert Pastusek [mailto:rpastusek@htii.com]=20 Sent: Tuesday, 13 May 2008 4:41 AM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: EGT Monitor Set-up =20 Gentlemen: =20 I am setting up/configuring the EI MVP-50 monitoring system for my = Lancair IV-P. Would any of you have recommended "normal" (green), caution (yellow) and not to exceed (red) values for = EGT for a Continental TSIO-550 E? Something to get me started would be appreciated. Thanks, Bob ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01C8B4DD.60A57F50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Bob:

 

I have done the same for my = MVP-50, and I am finally getting settings I can live with.  All my stuff is in = the hangar so I will be working from memory here.  My engine is an = IO-550, so the numbers except for manifold pressure will be the same.  =  It has proven to be a wonderful box, but it has taken a while to get the = settings right.

 

Some early learning = experiences:  I had problems with Bitching Betty constantly saying “check = engine.”  I had to do my initial flying with my friend and instructor = Gary Burns with Betty talking in my ear.  The switch on the MVP 50 that silences Betty did not = seem to work.  I set the volume down to zero and most of the alarms went away.  But “Check Engine” message still kept coming up. =

 

Come to find the MVP 50 to Chelton connection was sending a general engine warning to the Chelton, and the = Chelton Bitching Betty (which sounds the same) was the one still whispering in = my ear saying “Check Engine.”  The specific alarms (Check oil pressure etc.) went away.  She would come up at engine start = immediately because the oil pressure is zero.  Push the “EFIS mute” button, and she went away.    Now I can restore the MVP = 50 voice which was also bitching all the time since I had the alarms set wrong. =

 

One can set the alarms to flash on = yellow and red on the screen, and I found this to be useful after I turned the = voice off.  I learned that a lot of the settings I used caused momentary = alarms.  Until I got them sorted out under various flying conditions, I kept the = voice off.  Too distracting.  Now when I get an alarm, the red light = comes on in my face, I look over to the display, see which one is flashing, = and then decide what to do which is usually nothing except to make a mental note = to reset a particular alarm.

 

Momentary deviations also can = drive you crazy.  Example:  I set my ammeter alarms at the maximum = alternator current of 60 amps.  Raise the landing gear with the lights on, and = the ammeter would go momentarily to 75 or 80, not long enough to trip the circuit = breaker (which is thermal and takes a few seconds) but the MVP 50 picks it up = right away.  So I have set the green band up to 70, then white, then = yellow then red.  Or one could set the green up a bit. 

 

Ditto with voltage.  I set = yellow too high and after a hot start (a lot of cranking) the voltage would = stay low for a few seconds until the alternators started to refill the = batteries.  Another alarm would then sound at start up.  So I set green down to = 12.5 volts since my Odyssey batteries normally are 12.3 when fully charged, = but no alternator is running.  I set yellow below that level, and put = yellow also above 15 volts although 14.5 may be OK.  You have to experiment and = watch the events as they occur to decide where you want to set a value to = avoid extraneous momentary alarms.

 

Similarly with RPM.  I set = 2700  RPM as yellow and 2750 as red, and I got  an alarm in the middle of = take off when the RPM went to 2710.  Wrong time.  I reset green to = 2750, and put red at 2800.

 

Oil temperature took some = diddling.  I wanted green at 100F and above for take off, but setting yellow below = causes alarms during the entire heating period.  So use white up to 100F = (or 70F for cold weather and light oil), green up to say 210, yellow to 240, and = then red.  This seems to work fine with the oil door which I have found = to be useful at low power settings, but which can be = forgotten.

 

I have high compression pistons so = that I have to be particularly sensitive to detonation which can arise from = high CHT.  I also have cowl flaps and so wanted warnings if I forgot to set the = cowl flaps open during a go around or climb.  So I set CHT to be green to = 370F, yellow to 400, and red above although the theoretical red line is = 460F.  It works.  I forgot the cowl flaps during a go around while practicing = forced landings, and I got the warning about a minute later climbing at full = power at best rate.  That showed the value of the warning system = immediately.

 

Otherwise I would use the book = figures for engine except for fuel pressure.  I found that one can get high = fuel pressure with high RPM and low manifold pressure as when chopping the = throttle for some reason.  The fuel pump puts out lots of flow, but the = metering valve rejects it because the throttle is pulled partially closed, and = the fuel pressure can go several psig above the normal maximum for full power climb.  This triggers an alert for a few seconds until the RPM = drops.  So I set the green up about 5 psig over the normal maximum fuel = pressure. 

 

I also get alarms for EGT = difference greater than 100 F during power reductions.  My EGT spreads are = large, so it triggers frequently.  This requires a different page to reset, = not one of the green yellow red settings, but one of the pages for setting the = EGT scale settings on the bar graph.  Somewhere it says something about alarming when EGT difference exceeds 100F, and you can select the = “100” and change the value.  I think I set it to 150F for the time = being. 

 

I think you will have to fly a = lot, watch a lot, record notes, and give it several tries to get values you are comfortable with.  Initially I tended to set the yellow and = particularly the red levels too close to actual operating values for measurements that = are not that critical (like fuel pressure) and the stream of alarms resulting = makes you immune to the alarm warnings.  Better to save the alarms for the = critical values, and use white (no alarm) or green over wider ranges to prevent extraneous alarms.  I am now at the point where I get green = displays virtually all of the time under normal conditions.  It took several = iterations.

 

I hope this helps.  Let me = know if I can provide further information.  Like you, I am still learning how = to use these boxes, but all it takes is the instruction book and repetition, repetition, repetition.  After a few cycles it begins to stick in = my memory.

 

Cheers,

 

Fred

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Pastusek [mailto:rpastusek@htii.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 13 May = 2008 4:41 AM
To: = lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: EGT Monitor = Set-up

 

Gentlemen:

 

I am setting up/configuring the EI MVP-50 monitoring = system for my Lancair IV-P. Would any of you have recommended

 “normal” (green), caution (yellow) and = not to exceed (red) values for EGT for a Continental TSIO-550 E? Something to = get me started would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Bob

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