X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 13:22:45 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from mail90c35.nsolutionszone.com ([209.235.148.100] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.12) with ESMTPS id 2350645 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 25 Sep 2007 09:08:18 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.235.148.100; envelope-from=rsmiley2@centurytel.net X-Authenticated-User: rsmiley2.centurytel.net Received: from PC294771894831 (d6-148.rb.gh.centurytel.net [69.29.197.148]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail90c35.nsolutionszone.com (8.13.6.20060614/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l8PD7ZRi005032 for ; Tue, 25 Sep 2007 13:07:37 GMT X-Original-Message-ID: <001701c7ff74$f9455bf0$660aa8c0@PC294771894831> From: "Bob Smiley" X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" References: Subject: Re: [LML] Re: product liability X-Original-Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 06:07:04 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01C7FF3A.4B79D490" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C7FF3A.4B79D490 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bob Smiley said, 1. you give away all your assets to your wife before any litigous = event is known; 2. you, or a shell corporation, own the plane only; 3.you or your wife do not support the plane operation and maintenance = costs from your personal incomes. Maybe you can do so in terms of = non-voting shares in the stock of the plane. 4. You cannot have any voting rights or any incidence of control of = the plane. so in a little more detail: (1) give it all to your wife. this only works in non-community = property states, right? ANSWER: Works in all states. This is a dangerous proposition in a = shakey marriage as your wife can divorce you and leave you penniless. = Really requires trust; but it is a way for some doctors to protect their = assets. They generally own the car they drive and that's it. Keeps the = liability of driving and practicing medicine all tied to him. They also = carry little liability insurance and do not own any of the office = equipment; etc. in their pratice. On paper they look rather poor; but = they have a large income that could be attached. I proposed this option = as a possibility but I was faceitous in making the statement. I would = not do it. This strategy also has problems with estate taxes for high = net worth individuals as estate taxes would be due when the wife dies. = Under a 50-50 arrangement with the proper trusts established; you can = pass on twice as much estate value to heirs before estate taxes kick in. (3) how do you get money into the corporation except from your = personal income, assuming such corporation produces no income? e.g. = suppose you are an employee of some other corporation that is not = interested in helping you with your airplane habit. how else do you get = money in? ANSWER: Assume you own the plane personally. Further assume you used = your separate income say from a rental house which was given to you = through inheritance from your parents or an inherited life insurance = policy of your parents. This is separate income and your wife did not = have any right or previous control of the value you received and has no = legal right of control or attachment. Your job income; however, may not = be considered separate income and is assumed in courts to be attachable = to your spouse. Do you and your wife file income taxes jointly or = separately? This might have a bearing on the ownership of your income. = I assume that Social security may also be attached in certain = situations. Just ask some people that have gone through a divorce. = Sometimes SSI income is divided. In a marriage; I am under the opinion = that your income is considered shared income. I may be incorrect in = this matter but when you consider divorce case settlements, alimony etc. = it starts to make sense. Take for example divorced military persons = required to share their retirement income from spouses that were married = to them for several years during military service. Also consider the = marriage partnership is a shared experience; with shared = respsonsibilities. The courts take this into consideration. Law is = based on prececidence and history. Here is the rub. You did everything right in using your own separate = income (as defined above) to purchase, build, insure, maintain and fly. = You did everything right. Make sure you keep all documentation, = receipts, cancelled checks and records to prove in court that separate = income was used. ALSO MOST IMPORTANT. Never use any money from your = wifes income. NEVER. This will, in the courts be considered " a = comingling of funds" which entitle here to a share in the ownership. A = share in the ownership in the courts also implies with it a shared = responsibility or liability and control. This is where the protection = starts to break down.=20 Example. You are single and own a home. You have a girlfriend that = moves in with you and shares in the costs of the home, making payments = on the mortgage etc. After a few years you separate. Courts have = determined that a common law marriage exists and/or she has a right to a = partial share in the home net worth even though you did not sign any = documents. The test here is the old saying; "If it walks, talks and = looks like a dog; it must be a dog" applies. You look at the face value = of the situation; not the legal construction. (4) please elaborate. e.g. I formed an LLC of which I am the only = owner and only manager. this sounds like a complete flunk. so who = does have voting rights and control the airplane? ANSWER: The test for this question is: Who makes the decisions? Who = maintains the plane? Who flies the plane? Who provides the funds? = Smart and aggressive attorneys always look beyond perceived ownership to = find the real owners and controlling interests. Enuf said. Bottom line is you cannot escape liability for your actions that cause = harm or damage to other persons. We are responsible for our actions and = there are consequences. Sure we can make it difficult for others to = collect from us through LLC's, corporations etc.; but a determined foe = can persistently hound us and make it very difficult and sometimes = achieve sucess. There is always a price that must be paid. I suppose = that is why bankruptcy is a valid legal instrument. It provides a means = for mercy to be exercised in the legal system where justice demands to = be satisfied. The roots of this concept, justice and mercy as typified = in the symbol of the balancing scale held by the woman in long robes is = rooted in ancient Jewish law where we have obtained much of our western = legal system laws. SO, have fun and enjoy safe flying and realize we are all responsible = for our actions. Safe flying. Bob Smiley -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) = and may contain confidential information. Any unauthorized review, use, = disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended = recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all = copies of the original message.=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C7FF3A.4B79D490 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
Bob = Smiley=20 said,
 
 
1. you give away all your assets = to your wife=20 before any litigous event is known;
2. you, or a shell = corporation, own the=20 plane only;
3.you or your wife do not support = the plane=20 operation and maintenance costs from your personal incomes. Maybe = you can=20 do so in terms of non-voting shares in the stock of the=20 plane.
4. You cannot have any voting = rights or any=20 incidence of control of the plane.
 
 
so in a little more = detail:
 
(1) give it all to your = wife.   this=20 only works in non-community property states, right?
 
ANSWER: Works in all states. This is = a dangerous=20 proposition in a shakey marriage as your wife can divorce you and = leave you=20 penniless.  Really requires trust; but it is a way for some = doctors to=20 protect their assets.  They generally own the car they drive and = that's=20 it.  Keeps the liability of driving and practicing medicine all = tied to=20 him.  They also carry little liability insurance and do not own = any of=20 the office equipment; etc. in their pratice.  On paper they look = rather=20 poor; but they have a large income that could be = attached.  I=20 proposed this option as a possibility but I was faceitous in making = the=20 statement.  I would not do it.  This strategy also has = problems with=20 estate taxes for high net worth individuals as estate taxes would be = due when=20 the wife dies. Under a 50-50 arrangement with  the proper trusts=20 established; you can pass on twice as much estate value to heirs = before estate=20 taxes kick in.
 
(3)  how do you get money into = the=20 corporation except from your personal income, assuming such = corporation=20 produces no income?   e.g. suppose you are an employee of = some other=20 corporation that is not interested in helping you with your airplane=20 habit.  how else do you get money in?
 
ANSWER:  Assume you own the = plane=20 personally.  Further assume you used your separate income say = from a=20 rental house which was given to you through inheritance from your = parents or=20 an inherited life insurance policy of your parents.  This is = separate=20 income and your wife did not have any right or previous control of the = value=20 you received and has no legal right of control or attachment.  = Your job=20 income; however, may not be considered separate income and is assumed = in=20 courts to be attachable to your spouse.  Do you and your wife = file income=20 taxes jointly or separately?  This might have a bearing on the = ownership=20 of your income. I assume that Social security may also be attached in = certain=20 situations.  Just ask some people that have gone through a = divorce. =20 Sometimes SSI income is divided.  In a marriage; I am under the = opinion=20 that your income is considered shared income.  I may be incorrect = in this=20 matter but when you consider divorce case settlements, alimony etc. it = starts=20 to make sense.  Take for example divorced military persons = required to=20 share their retirement income from spouses that were married to them = for=20 several years during military service. Also consider the marriage = partnership=20 is a shared experience; with shared respsonsibilities.  The = courts take=20 this into consideration. Law is based on prececidence and=20 history.
 
Here is the rub.  You did = everything right=20 in using your own separate income (as defined above) to purchase, = build,=20 insure, maintain and fly.  You did everything right.  Make = sure you=20 keep all documentation, receipts, cancelled checks and records to = prove in=20 court that separate income was used.  ALSO MOST IMPORTANT.  = Never=20 use any money from your wifes income. NEVER.  This will, in the = courts be=20 considered " a comingling of funds" which entitle here to a share in = the=20 ownership.  A share in the ownership in the courts also implies = with it a=20 shared responsibility or liability and control.  This is where = the=20 protection starts to break down.
 
Example.  You are single and own = a home. You=20 have a girlfriend that moves in with you and shares in the costs of = the home,=20 making payments on the mortgage etc.  After a few years you=20 separate.  Courts have determined that a common law marriage = exists=20 and/or she has a right to a partial share in the home net worth even = though=20 you did not sign any documents.  The test here is the old saying; = "If it=20 walks, talks and looks like a dog; it must be a dog" applies.  = You look=20 at the face value of the situation; not the legal = construction.
 
(4) please elaborate.   = e.g. I formed=20 an LLC of which I am the only owner and only manager.   this = sounds=20 like a complete flunk.    so who does have voting = rights and=20 control the airplane?
 
ANSWER:  The test for this = question is: Who=20 makes the decisions?  Who maintains the plane?  Who flies = the plane?=20 Who provides the funds?  Smart and aggressive attorneys always = look=20 beyond perceived ownership to find the real owners and controlling = interests.=20 Enuf said.
 
Bottom line is you cannot escape = liability for=20 your actions that cause harm or damage to other persons.  We are=20 responsible for our actions and there are consequences.  Sure we = can make=20 it difficult for others to collect from us through LLC's, corporations = etc.;=20 but a determined foe can persistently hound us and make it very = difficult and=20 sometimes achieve sucess. There is always a price that must be = paid.  I=20 suppose that is why bankruptcy is a valid legal instrument.  It = provides=20 a means for mercy to be exercised in the legal system where = justice=20 demands to be satisfied.  The roots of this concept, justice and = mercy as=20 typified in the symbol of the balancing scale held by the woman = in long=20 robes is rooted in ancient Jewish law where we have obtained much = of our=20 western legal system laws.
 
SO, have fun and enjoy safe flying = and realize we=20 are all responsible for our actions.
 
Safe flying.
 
Bob Smiley
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
This email message is for the sole use of the intended = recipient(s) and=20 may contain confidential information.  Any unauthorized review, = use,=20 disclosure or distribution is prohibited.  If you are not the = intended=20 recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all = copies of=20 the original message.

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