Mailing List lml@lancaironline.net Message #43298
From: Douglas Brunner <douglasbrunner@earthlink.net>
Sender: <marv@lancaironline.net>
Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Template of Leading Edges
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2007 00:02:44 -0400
To: <lml@lancaironline.net>
Alan,
 
I have the disadvantage of not being an engineer but it is my understanding that drag and therefore power requirements go up rather steeply (based on the cube) at the top end of the speed curve.
 
Let us assume that 922F goes 15 knots faster than another similar Legacy and that we can explain
this difference based either on aerodynamics or on horsepower.  (Most likely the difference is a combination of the two)  The difference in speed between 250 and 265 is approximately 6%.
 
If we chose to explain this difference in speed solely on a difference in horsepower how much horsepower do we need?  (Here is where it would be very helpful if I was an engineer) By my (suspect) calculations we would need 19% greater horsepower.  So if the 250 kt plane is making 325 hp the 265 kt plane would need to make 387 hp.  If the 250 kt plane makes 310 hp, the 265 kt plane would need to make 369 hp. 
 
In my discussion with Mr. Frazier he said that he had run his engine at about 2600 RPM and approx 26 inches manifold pressure.  I doubt that his engine makes 19% more horsepower at that setting than a stock Continental.
 
Some of the discussions on horsepower become more like discussions of religion than of science.  And I must admit that I am probably of the "Oklahoma Branch" of the faith rather than the "Southern California Branch".  I simply do not believe that an approximately 15 kt difference in speed can be explained based primarily on horsepower.
 
On a more practical level, my engine is already built (IO-550, 10:1 compression, dual mags, built by Monty Barrett) so I cannot change that.  My only chance to get 265 kts is to attend to the aerodynamics. I may have a chance to actually test and see how much increase (or decrease) in speed I can get by paying attention to the leading edges.  Most likely my plane will be flying before I get a chance to "template" the leading edges.  I will then have an opportunity to see if there is a "before vs. after" difference.
 
D. Brunner
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 6:12 PM
Subject: [LML] Re: Template of Leading Edges

It was 922F.
 
Given this discussion, I'd suggest a slightly different approach.
 
Most of the Legacys run in the 240-250kt range (those quicker ones anyway).
 
If indeed this one is in the mid 260's, I doubt subtle changes to the bodywork to better match wing airfoils is the magic as that is a 15kts differential from the 250 mark (which very few stock legacys make)
 
This particular airplane makes that mid 260 number on 19.5 gph (the owner had a card in the airplane with the specifics).  It gave no MP/RPM numbers however.
 
Also, it has a highly modified LyCon IO-550 engine with 10:1 compression and a supposedly dyno'd 375HP.  I heard a rumor that it actually made 390 on the dyno and had to be "turned down" (dunno how you do that with a normally aspirated engine) to make the 375HP.
 
As everyone knows, the only semi accurate way to determine accuracy in TAS numbers is to use a spreadsheet by the National Test Pilot association, here's the link http://www.ntps.edu/Files/GPS%20PEC.XLS
 
Use the tab that requires 4 legs.  It's pretty simple to do this, just pick an altitude where you can make 75% power, setup for your runs and level out and let your speed build.  Now turn on your Autopilot and slave it to the GPS.  You want to fly 90 degree legs (90, 180, 270, 360) all 4 of them.
 
For each leg, write down the following information
Alt, RPM, MP, OAT, PALT, DALT, IAS, TAS (if you have onboard indication), GPS TRACK, and GPS GROUND SPEED
 
Now when you have landed, plug in the GPS TRACK and the GPS GROUND SPEED into that 4 leg tab on the spread sheet and see what the TAS was.  If it is higher or lower than your indicated TAS, then you have an error in your IAS (which is what feeds the TAS CALC in most GLASS panels), or your OAT.
 
I did notice that this particular airplane had GRT Glass panels in it and that it used a slightly different ram air setup.
 
As a note, Scott Alair ran the AVC at 297mph or 253kts in a stock engined legacy, but I believe he was turning 2900 RPM and I don't know what his MP was.  Last year at reno, a legacy right out of build assist with no paint or body work turned 290mph laps at reno but this one also had a modified motor from performance engines altho it turned stock RPM (2800).
 
The reason I make these last 2 points.  HP is king when trying to put up speed numbers.  So if the mid 260's is everything full forward, what is the typical cruise in this airplane with a more standard fuel burn?  That will tell probably more as it relates to speed than a speed run will.
 
My .02,
Alan


From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of VTAILJEFF@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 8:17 AM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: Template of Leading Edges

What is Mr. Frazier's N Number?
 
Jeff




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