X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 15:53:30 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imo-m14.mx.aol.com ([64.12.138.204] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.2) with ESMTP id 1597501 for lml@lancaironline.net; Thu, 23 Nov 2006 15:19:46 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.138.204; envelope-from=Sky2high@aol.com Received: from Sky2high@aol.com by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id q.c81.73488a7 (40523) for ; Thu, 23 Nov 2006 15:19:17 -0500 (EST) From: Sky2high@aol.com X-Original-Message-ID: X-Original-Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 15:19:17 EST Subject: Re: [LML] Nav Antenna X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1164313157" X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5330 X-Spam-Flag: NO -------------------------------1164313157 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/23/2006 1:07:56 P.M. Central Standard Time, elippse@sbcglobal.net writes: An antenna in free-space may have the nice toroidal, donut-shaped pattern, but when mounted on some vehicle, its pattern may be distorted, leaving holes or nulls in various directions. These nulls may be caused by blockage, but more often due to nearby metallic objects which re-radiate the signal at some phase angle which may be destructive. Consider, for example, elevator and aileron push-pull tubes and wiring. When these are of a length that is an apprecible fraction of the average 105" wavelength, and are within a wavelength, and somewhat parrallel, interesting things happen to the toroidal pattern; it's as if your cat was taking bites out of the donut. If you have fibreglass wings, the LE of the wing root is a good mounting place for the horizontally-polarized nav signal. A signal-splitter has an inherent loss of dividing the signal power to each receiver, so if you have two receivers, each will receive slightly less than 1/2 power, a 3dB loss. That shouldn't be too bad for a close-up localizer. A tip-off that destructive interference is taking place is that the reception changes with frequency, some channels being better than others. As far as GS is concerned, that's a much higher frequency, so it should not have coincident loss of signal. That would seem to be more in line with some blockage. Are the nav and GS antennas coincident in mounting? You might also check each coax for poor connections that allow leakage at the connector which also can be destructive, as well as possibly a shorted coax. Get hold of a SWR tester and check these lines. Paul, Thanks for a more technical explanation. Hmmmmm, the old swept-back nav antenna was a center tap arrangement running the width of the small horizontal - maybe about 4 feet or about half the wavelength - The push pull tubes are not at right angles since the antenna "wings" are swept back just like the external whiskers often observed on those funny "standard" tin airplanes - but, on a good approach, the durn thing has to look thru the people in the cockpit, the engine and the carbon in the main wing spar, about 3 degrees down from the antenna placement. Oh well, works pretty good for me...... My biggest problem is the comm antenna in the vertical tail - the nulls are greatest radiating along the aircraft centerline. Bummer. Scott Krueger AKA Grayhawk Lancair N92EX IO320 SB 89/96 Aurora, IL (KARR) A man has got to know his limitations. -------------------------------1164313157 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In a message dated 11/23/2006 1:07:56 P.M. Central Standard Time,=20 elippse@sbcglobal.net writes:
<= FONT=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size= =3D2>
An antenna in free-space may have the nice toroida= l,=20 donut-shaped pattern, but when mounted on some vehicle, its pattern may be= =20 distorted, leaving holes or nulls in various directions. These nulls may b= e=20 caused by blockage, but more often due to nearby metallic objects which=20 re-radiate the signal at some phase angle which may be destructive.=20 Consider, for example, elevator and aileron push-pull tubes and wiring. Wh= en=20 these are of a length that is an apprecible fraction of the average 105"=20 wavelength, and are within a wavelength, and somewhat parrallel, interesti= ng=20 things happen to the toroidal pattern; it's as if your cat was taking bite= s=20 out of the donut.
    If you have fibreglass wings, t= he LE=20 of the wing root is a good mounting place for the=20 horizontally-polarized nav signal. A signal-splitter has an inherent=20= loss=20 of dividing the signal power to each receiver, so if you have two receiver= s,=20 each will receive slightly less than 1/2 power, a 3dB loss. That shouldn't= be=20 too bad for a close-up localizer. A tip-off that destructive interference=20= is=20 taking place is that the reception changes with frequency, some=20 channels being better than others. As far as GS is concerned, that's=20= a=20 much higher frequency, so it should not have coincident loss of signal. Th= at=20 would seem to be more in line with some blockage. Are the nav and GS anten= nas=20 coincident in mounting? You might also check each coax for poor connection= s=20 that allow leakage at the connector which also can be destructive, as well= as=20 possibly a shorted coax. Get hold of a SWR tester and check these=20 lines. 
Paul,
 
Thanks for a more technical explanation.  Hmmmmm, the old swept-ba= ck=20 nav antenna was a center tap arrangement running the width of the small=20 horizontal - maybe about 4 feet or about half the wavelength - The push= =20 pull tubes are not at right angles since the antenna "wings" are swept back=20= just=20 like the external whiskers often observed on those funny "standard" tin=20 airplanes - but, on a good approach, the durn thing has to look thru th= e=20 people in the cockpit, the engine and the carbon in the main wing spar, abou= t 3=20 degrees down from the antenna placement.  Oh well, works pretty=20 good for me......
 
My biggest problem is the comm antenna in the vertical tail - the nulls= are=20 greatest radiating along the aircraft centerline. Bummer.
 
Scott Krueger=20 AKA Grayhawk
Lancair N92EX IO320 SB 89/96
Aurora, IL (KARR)

A m= an=20 has got to know his limitations.
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