X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 09:53:02 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imo-m24.mx.aol.com ([64.12.137.5] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1c.4) with ESMTP id 1425173 for lml@lancaironline.net; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 18:26:31 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.137.5; envelope-from=Sky2high@aol.com Received: from Sky2high@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id q.386.c9493fb (29672) for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 18:25:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Sky2high@aol.com X-Original-Message-ID: <386.c9493fb.324da5e9@aol.com> X-Original-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 18:25:45 EDT Subject: Re: [LML] Primers X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1159482345" X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5330 X-Spam-Flag: NO -------------------------------1159482345 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/28/2006 2:43:50 P.M. Central Standard Time, toucan@Satx.rr.com writes: Yes, some paint manufacturers are pushing the water-based products, mainly because the EPA is coming down ever harder on VOC's (volatile solvents) in the older formulations. Having had one bad experience with water-based primers, however, I'd say stay away from them until they've been in use long enough to have a large, happy customer base. In other words, let someone else be the guinea pig on something cheaper than your Lancair. As for seeing fabric weave, in just the right light I've been able to do that with all three planes I've finished, one painted with Siemens products, one with PPG, and the third with Imron. Check some of the planes at your next local fly-in. It seems that polymerization (cure) of these paints is not quite an on/off, 0 or 1 affair. Over time, the process goes slower and slower, but probably doesn't reach near zero until after you've done your wet-sanding and buff-out. If you're really a perfectionist, you might want to fly for a while with the as-shot paint finish, zits and orange peel and all (What? You don't get any of that when you spray?) , then wet sand and buff out in maybe six months. I've used the WLS primer and found it to be great stuff, but it's beastly hard to sand. I've also used PPG epoxy primer, with which I had some fish-eye problems (probably silicone lubricant in a syringe, but that's another story), then DuPont's Corlar epoxy, with is very good, and more recently, an acrylic urethane primer sold under the Transtar name and used commonly by auto body shops. Both the Corlar and Transtar have good build, and are relatively easy to sand; these sorts of primers are often called primer/surfacers in the auto trade. Both are compatible with common finish coats, both single stage and base/clear. Water-based paints sound good, but I'd be very wary of 'em. [BTW, another problem with flying in primer is that it's a bear to really, really de-grease the primer before proceeding with the finish coat. If you've had any silicone products anywhere near it, like windshield goo that some folks like, or Lemon Pledge, which I've had recommended to me by certain factory personnel who shall remain nameless, you haven't a prayer of getting a good finish coat without a huge amount of work. Jim, Yes, the de-grease (Pledge, engine oil, exhaust stains, etc) was a bear. If only I had had the painter put on another coat of primer after flying her for a year and a half....... However, I sure would have messed up a paint job with the number of "experiments" that had to be re-worked, eliminated, etc. Of course, these days almost all of the building mistakes have been exposed on the LML. Oh well, things turned out pretty good even if I built the thing late in the last century. Scott Krueger AKA Grayhawk Lancair N92EX IO320 SB 89/96 Aurora, IL (KARR) A man has got to know his limitations. -------------------------------1159482345 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In a message dated 9/28/2006 2:43:50 P.M. Central Standard Time,=20 toucan@Satx.rr.com writes:
<= FONT=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size= =3D2>
    Yes, some paint manufacturers are p= ushing=20 the water-based products, mainly because the EPA is coming down ever harde= r on=20 VOC's (volatile solvents) in the older formulations.  Having had one=20= bad=20 experience with water-based primers, however, I'd say stay away from them=20 until they've been in use long enough to have a large, happy customer=20 base.  In other words, let someone else be the guinea pig on somethin= g=20 cheaper than your Lancair.
    As for seeing fabric weave, in just= the=20 right light I've been able to do that with all three planes I've finished,= one=20 painted with Siemens products, one with PPG, and the third with Imron.&nbs= p;=20 Check some of the planes at your next local fly-in.  It seems that=20 polymerization (cure) of these paints is not quite an on/off, 0 or 1=20 affair.  Over time, the process goes slower and slower, but probably=20 doesn't reach near zero until after you've done your wet-sanding and=20 buff-out.  If you're really a perfectionist, you might want to fly fo= r a=20 while with the as-shot paint finish, zits and orange peel and all  (W= hat?=20 You don't get any of that when you spray?) , then wet sand and buff o= ut=20 in maybe six months.
    I've used the WLS primer and found=20= it to=20 be great stuff, but it's beastly hard to sand.  I've also used PPG ep= oxy=20 primer, with which I had some fish-eye problems (probably silicone lubrica= nt=20 in a syringe, but that's another story), then DuPont's Corlar epoxy, with=20= is=20 very good, and more recently, an acrylic urethane primer sold under the=20 Transtar name and used commonly by auto body shops.  Both the Corlar=20= and=20 Transtar have good build, and are relatively easy to sand; these sorts of=20 primers are often called primer/surfacers in the auto trade.  Both ar= e=20 compatible with common finish coats, both single stage and=20 base/clear.
    Water-based paints sound good, but=20= I'd be=20 very wary of 'em.
 
    [BTW, another problem with flying i= n=20 primer is that it's a bear to really, really de-grease the primer before=20 proceeding with the finish coat.  If you've had any silicone products= =20 anywhere near it, like windshield goo that some folks like, or Lemon Pledg= e,=20 which I've had recommended to me by certain factory personnel who shall re= main=20 nameless, you haven't a prayer of getting a good finish coat without a=20 huge amount of=20 work.
Jim,
 
Yes, the de-grease (Pledge, engine oil, exhaust stains, etc) was a=20 bear.  If only I had had the painter put on another coat of primer afte= r=20 flying her for a year and a half.......  However, I sure would have mes= sed=20 up a paint job with the number of "experiments" that had to be re-worked,=20 eliminated, etc.  Of course, these days almost all of the=20 building mistakes have been exposed on the LML.  Oh well, things=20 turned out pretty good even if I built the thing late in the last century.=20
 
Scott Krueger=20 AKA Grayhawk
Lancair N92EX IO320 SB 89/96
Aurora, IL (KARR)

A m= an=20 has got to know his limitations.
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