X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 05:26:56 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from vms046pub.verizon.net ([206.46.252.46] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1c.3) with ESMTP id 1336604 for lml@lancaironline.net; Fri, 18 Aug 2006 03:24:12 -0400 Received: from [192.168.111.2] ([70.18.211.98]) by vms046.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPA id <0J46000IVN7X0SZ1@vms046.mailsrvcs.net> for lml@lancaironline.net; Fri, 18 Aug 2006 02:24:00 -0500 (CDT) X-Original-Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 03:23:56 -0400 From: Kevin Kossi Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Walter "D" vs "E" models In-reply-to: X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" X-Original-Message-id: <584204E3-5FA5-4107-955F-87AC3E4CCEF3@airforcemechanical.com> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-25--662506572 References: --Apple-Mail-25--662506572 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed I hate to see anyone trashed on the LML, let alone the owner of an =20 airplane manufacturing company. One in which Lancair Owners depend on =20= for so much. There have been times in the past that I thought about posting a =20 frustration I would have with a manufacturer or supplier, but I chose =20= to refrain and work it out without having any regrets for a hasty =20 post that I would later regret. I have had my fair share of bumps in the road at Lancair, but I found =20= the staff always willing to handle the situation, and on one occasion =20= Joe asked me how things were going and I mentioned something that I =20 did not think was happening the way I thought was best for me and to =20 my surprise Joe immediately called a meeting with the entire =20 management staff to figure out how to best deal with my issue and it =20 was fixed right there and then. I was impressed with his grab the =20 bull by the horns and deal with the situation attitude. Kevin Kossi New York Legacy 55% On Aug 17, 2006, at 1:22 PM, rtitsworth wrote: > Mr D, > > > > I=92ve learned a bit by reading your recent emails regarding the D =20 > and E models. Thanks for the posts and the shared knowledge. =20 > However=85 > > > > I=92m also guessing you recognize the value of your plane/project is =20= > related to the popular/public opinion of Lancair in general. i.e. =20 > If people are (wrongly) lead to believe that Lancairs are poorly =20 > designed, not supported, and ran by self-centered snake-oil folks, =20 > then demand goes down along with the value of your project/=20 > investment (and along with the value of all the rest of our planes/=20 > projects). > > > > Occasionally, I=92ve also been a bit frustrated with some of the =20 > support and/or follow-up available from Redmond myself. However, =20 > from your post, I can only assume you do not know Joe very well =96 =20= > otherwise you would just contact him directly, rather than posting =20 > an emotionally charged public email (I assume using all capitals in =20= > your email means =93with emotion=94). I=92ve found him very fair to = deal =20 > with =96 recognizing there is only so much he can do so satisfy each =20= > frustrated customer and keep the company healthy. I=92m sure you =20 > realize what happens to the value of our little planes if Lancair =20 > falls on hard times (or ever ends up like Express). Joe and the =20 > folks at Redmond are not the enemy =96 they are part of your team =96 =20= > as are the rest of us with lots of time, energy, $ (and our lives) =20 > tied up in these plastic boxes. > > > > -10 yards for unsportsmanlike conduct ;-) > > > > Rick Titsworth, Detroit > > Cell: 313-506-5604 > > > > From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf =20= > Of Douglas Kay > Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 12:00 AM > To: Lancair Mailing List > Subject: [LML] Re: Walter "D" vs "E" models > > > > Mr Joe, > > although it is unfortunate that you sometimes have to represent =20 > your employees, but one of your sales staff certainly did tell me =20 > in person that the D would not pressurize the plane. It was less =20 > than a year ago, and in fact that conflicting remark as well as it =20 > seemed that he took additional time to critisize the Diemech =20 > engine,, has made me delay the decision about the engine. If you =20 > don't want to be thought of as disingenious, I suggest you have a =20 > sales staff meeting and get everyone on the same page. When someone =20= > you employ speaks, certainly on issues such as this, the guidance =20 > must be coming from somewhere. > > > > On the other hand, your statement about "high temperatures" from =20 > the flow pack is WRONG. On this issue, I have some knowledge first =20 > hand. Flowpacks are used by manufactures because they don't want to =20= > bleed too much air from the turbine. You take just a small amount =20 > of bleed and a bunch of colder outside air, run it all though an =20 > intercooler and you have air that is not hot at all, and even =20 > better, the engine has plenty air left for power. > > Your EXE engine on the other hand, is pulling plenty of air from =20 > the turbine, (and yes,, this air is high temp) and my guess is that =20= > you have to run it through an intercooler (so much for your =20 > statement about cooler air),,, > > So, as you say, it is difficult and more expensive,,,, hmmmm.... > > I am quite certain now, that any of the EXE planes will be plenty =20 > slower than the D planes, just because of this issue. > > > > I have spoken to more than 4 EXE owners now, and I can tell you,, =20 > that the owners report poor to very poor support from Walter. Most =20 > of their problems seem to be installation issues and Walter does =20 > not support that..... According to a professional builder in the =20 > mid west,,, quote "there is nobody to go to for help". He was =20 > installing an EXE engine. > > > > One other builder I spoke to, used a FACTORY LANCAIR test pilot for =20= > his EXE powered plane, and YOUR pilot overtemped and oversped his =20 > engine. (I wonder how much support Walter is going to give for =20 > that). The TSLM clearly showed what the pilot did, and he is now =20 > afraid to fly the plane. How can he trust the engine? Lancair =20 > doesn't want to replace the engine, Walter doesn't want to replace =20 > it... Let me ask you this, since you were the one that brought up =20 > the issue of support,,,, Would you want to fly in this plane after =20 > you knew it was overtemped and oversped??? How do you think your =20 > customer feels???? > > > > D > > Marvin Kaye wrote: > > Posted for "Joe Bartels" : > > > There are a lot of differences that would make one Lancair faster than > another. Sometimes it is the weight, sometimes it is the addition =20 > of de-ice > and sometimes it is weather conditions. True airspeed should be =20 > close with > either the "E" or "D" engines. I cannot speak to Mr. Cooke's =20 > aircraft as I > have never seen it. > > If someone at Lancair told you that you could not pressurize your =20 > aircraft > with a "D" engine, they would be incorrect. It is just a good deal =20 > more > difficult and expensive as you would need a "flow-pack" to reduce the > exceedingly high temperatures that will come from the high pressure/=20= > low volume > air that the "D" engine produces from its bleed port. > > Your comments about my being a liar are truly disturbing and =20 > unappreciated. > If you wish to buy a "D" engine from Diemach or anyone else, that =20 > is your > decision. If you wish to buy a factory remanufactured engine =20 > supported by > Walter at a discounted OEM price, ("D" or "E") your option is then =20 > limited to > purchasing it through us. > > Joseph C. Bartels, CEO > Lancair International, Inc. > > -- > For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/lml/ > > > > > > How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger=92s low PC-to-Phone =20 > call rates. > > --Apple-Mail-25--662506572 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252 I hate to see anyone trashed on = the LML, let alone the owner of an airplane manufacturing company. One = in which Lancair Owners depend on for so much.
There have been times = in the past that I thought about posting a=A0frustration I would have = with a manufacturer or supplier, but I chose to refrain and work it out = without having any regrets for a hasty post that I would = later=A0regret.
I have had my fair share of bumps in the road = at Lancair, but I found the staff always willing to handle the = situation, and on one occasion Joe asked me how things were going and I = mentioned something that I did not think was happening the way I thought = was best for me and to my=A0surprise Joe=A0immediately called a meeting = with the entire management staff to figure out how to best deal with my = issue and it was fixed right there and then. I was impressed with his = grab the bull by the horns and deal with the situation = attitude.



Kevin=A0 = Kossi
New York
Legacy 55%

=A0
On Aug 17, = 2006, at 1:22 PM, rtitsworth wrote:

Mr D,

I=92ve learned a bit = by reading your recent emails regarding the D and E models.=A0 Thanks = for the posts and the shared knowledge.=A0 However=85

I=92m also guessing = you recognize the value of your plane/project is related to the = popular/public opinion of Lancair in general.=A0 i.e. If people are = (wrongly) lead to believe that Lancairs are poorly designed, not = supported, and ran by self-centered snake-oil folks, then demand goes = down along with the value of your project/investment (and along with the = value of all the rest of our planes/projects).Occasionally, I=92ve = also been a bit frustrated with some of the support and/or follow-up = available from myself.=A0 However, from your post, I can only assume you = do not know Joe very well =96 otherwise you would just contact him = directly, rather than posting an emotionally charged public email (I = assume using all capitals in your email means =93with emotion=94).=A0 = I=92ve found him very fair to deal with =96 recognizing there is only so = much he can do so satisfy each frustrated customer and keep the company = healthy.=A0 I=92m sure you realize what happens to the value of our = little planes if Lancair falls on hard times (or ever ends up like = Express).=A0 Joe and the folks at Redmond are not the enemy =96 they are = part of your team =96 as are the rest of us with lots of time, energy, $ = (and our lives) tied up in these plastic boxes.-10 yards for = unsportsmanlike conduct ;-)

=A0

Rick Titsworth, Cell: = 313-506-5604

=A0

Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] = Douglas = Kay
Thursday, August = 17, 2006 12:00 AM
Lancair Mailing = List
[LML] Re: Walter = "D" vs "E" models

=A0

Mr Joe,

although it is unfortunate that you sometimes = have to represent your employees, but one of your sales staff certainly = did tell me in person that the D would not pressurize the plane. It was = less than a year ago, and in fact that conflicting remark as well as it = seemed that he took additional time to critisize the Diemech engine,, = has made me delay the decision about the engine. If you don't want to be = thought of=A0as disingenious, I suggest you have a sales staff meeting = and get everyone on the same page. When someone you employ speaks, = certainly on issues such as this, the guidance must be coming from = somewhere.

=A0

On the other hand, your statement about "high = temperatures" from the flow pack is WRONG. On this issue, I have some = knowledge first hand. Flowpacks are used by manufactures because they = don't want to bleed too much air from the turbine. You take just a small = amount of bleed and a bunch of colder outside air, run it all though an = intercooler and you have air that is not hot at all, and even better, = the engine has plenty air left for power.Your EXE engine on the other hand, is pulling plenty = of air from the turbine, (and yes,, this air is high temp) and=A0my = guess is=A0that you have to run it through an intercooler (so much for = your statement about cooler air),,,So, as you say, it is difficult and more = expensive,,,, hmmmm....

I am quite certain now, that any of the EXE = planes will be plenty slower than=A0the D planes, just because of this = issue.

=A0

I have spoken to more than 4 EXE owners now, = and I can tell you,, that the owners report poor to very poor support = from Walter. Most of their problems seem to be installation issues and = Walter does not support that..... According to a professional builder in = the mid west,,, quote "there is nobody to go to for help". He was = installing an EXE engine.

=A0

One other builder I spoke to, used a FACTORY = LANCAIR test pilot for his EXE powered plane, and YOUR pilot overtemped = and oversped his engine. (I wonder how much support Walter is going to = give for that). The TSLM clearly showed what the pilot did, and he is = now afraid to fly the plane. How can he trust the engine? Lancair = doesn't want to replace the engine, Walter doesn't want to replace it... = Let me ask you this, since you were the one that brought up the issue of = support,,,, Would you want to fly in this plane after you knew it was = overtemped and oversped???=A0 How do you think your customer = feels????

=A0

D

Marvin Kaye <marv@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Posted for "Joe Bartels" :


There are a lot of differences that would make = one Lancair faster than
another. Sometimes it is the weight, = sometimes it is the addition of de-ice
and sometimes = it is weather conditions. True airspeed should be close with
either the "E" or "D" engines. I cannot speak to Mr. = Cooke's aircraft as I
have never seen it.

If someone at Lancair told you that you could not = pressurize your aircraft
with a "D" = engine, they would be incorrect. It is just a good deal more
difficult and expensive as you would need a = "flow-pack" to reduce the
exceedingly = high temperatures that will come from the high pressure/low = volume
air that the "D" engine produces from its = bleed port.

Your comments about my being a liar are truly = disturbing and unappreciated.
If you wish to = buy a "D" engine from Diemach or anyone else, that is your
decision. If you wish to buy a factory remanufactured = engine supported by
Walter at a discounted OEM price, = ("D" or "E") your option is then limited to
purchasing it through us.

Joseph C. Bartels, CEO
Lancair = International, Inc.

--
For archives = and unsub http://mail.lancaironlin= e.net/lists/lml/

=A0

=A0

How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger=92s = low


= --Apple-Mail-25--662506572--