X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 18:20:25 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from S4.cableone.net ([24.116.0.230] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.9) with ESMTP id 1113134 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sun, 14 May 2006 15:45:56 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=24.116.0.230; envelope-from=n23sw@cableone.net Received: from [10.0.1.113] (unverified [24.117.206.51]) by S4.cableone.net (CableOne SMTP Service S4) with ESMTP id 58310568 for ; Sun, 14 May 2006 13:33:46 -0700 X-Original-Return-Path: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v749.3) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-6--322491394 X-Original-Message-Id: <6222125B-C7CE-4FFA-A247-0755D32909EA@cableone.net> From: Don Morris Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Vx X-Original-Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 12:45:16 -0700 X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.749.3) X-SpamDetect: **: 2.000000 Possible url forgery/scam=2.0 X-UrlForgery: (http://mail.lancaironline.net) (http://mail.lancaironlin) X-IP-stats: Incoming Last 0, First 41, in=163, out=0, spam=0 X-External-IP: 24.117.206.51 X-Abuse-Info: Send abuse complaints to abuse@cableone.net --Apple-Mail-6--322491394 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed I lost the engine in a 360 on a go-around at 100'. I instinctively pushed the nose over and began trouble-shooting. I had bumped the boost pump off when adding power to go-around. Turning the boost pump on brought the engine back to life. Every pilot should, without thinking, be conscious of pushing the nose down when the engine quits or you will be recovering from a stall in addition to trouble- shooting. That event made me re-think my take-off/ go-around procedures. Altitude is TIME. And you need time to trouble-shoot/ look for a place to land. I had always gone for speed for cooling. I found that climbing to 1000' AGL at Vx did not heat the engine too hot. From lift-off to 1000' AGL is the most critical time in your take-off profile. Keep it as short as you can by going for altitude and getting more time. I also go over my take-off emergency procedures (checklist item) before I roll. Another two cents worth. Don Morris, CFI with 26,000 hrs. N550KB On May 14, 2006, at 9:16 AM, Marvin Kaye wrote: > > > > Posted for "Paul Lipps" : > > Actually, Vx is at minimum power required/maximum endurance and > occurs at > about 75%* of Vy, best L/D. At Vy, induced drag and parasite drag > are equal. > Barry Schiff just wrote an excellent article about this Vx-Vy thing on > engine-out procedures in AOPA Pilot. My 235's Vy is about 110 mph > -115 mph IAS > so Vx is about 83 mph IAS. I usually do the first part of my climb > at this IAS > until about 500AGL. > *Aerodynamics for Naval Aviators, pp.158-163, and Figures 2.23 and > 2.24. > > > [Assuming one is flying at L/D max (Vx) during the early part of > the climbout, what is the typical pitching moment that is induced > if and when the power goes to zero? I suspect that the back > pressure is going to have to be relieved slightly in order to > maintain that same AOA. And should one choose to bank the airplane > at the same time, the back pressure is going to have to be relieved > even more to maintain it (in one G flight, as mentioned earlier). > As regards this particular accident, and given the small amount of > real data that we actually have but assuming that the power was > lost at 80-100' AGL, I can only imagine how difficult it would have > been for the pilot to push forward on the stick knowing how little > air is separating the aircraft from the ground. I'm not making any > judgements or drawing any conclusions, just sharing some food for > thought. ] > > -- > For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/lml/ Don Morris dmorris@cableone.net 1391 Escalante Dr. Prescott, AZ 86303 928 777-0737 928-925-5940 (c) --Apple-Mail-6--322491394 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 I lost the engine in a 360 on a = go-around at 100'.=A0 I instinctively pushed the nose over and began = trouble-shooting. =A0 =A0I had bumped the boost pump off when adding = power to go-around.=A0 Turning the boost pump on brought the engine back = to life.=A0 Every pilot should, without thinking, be conscious of = pushing the nose down when the engine quits or you will be recovering = from a stall in addition to trouble-shooting.=A0That event made me = re-think my take-off/ go-around procedures.=A0 Altitude is TIME. And you = need time to trouble-shoot/look for a place to land.=A0 I had always = gone for speed for cooling.=A0 I found that climbing to 1000' AGL at Vx = did not heat the engine too hot.=A0 =46rom lift-off to 1000' AGL is the = most critical time in your take-off profile.=A0 Keep it as short as you = can by going for altitude and getting more time.

I also go over my take-off = emergency procedures (checklist item) before I roll.

Another two cents = worth.

Don = Morris, CFI with 26,000 hrs.
N550KB

On = May 14, 2006, at 9:16 AM, Marvin Kaye wrote:




Posted for "Paul Lipps" <elippse@sbcglobal.net>:
=

=A0Actually, Vx is at minimum = power required/maximum endurance and occurs at
about 75%* of Vy, best L/D. At Vy, induced drag and = parasite drag are equal.
Barry Schiff = just wrote an excellent article about this Vx-Vy thing on
engine-out procedures in AOPA Pilot. My 235's Vy is = about 110 mph -115 mph IAS
so Vx is = about 83 mph IAS. I usually do the first part of my climb at this = IAS
until about 500AGL.
=A0*Aerodynamics for Naval = Aviators, pp.158-163, and Figures 2.23 and 2.24.


[Assuming one = is flying at L/D max (Vx) during the early part of the climbout, what is = the typical pitching moment that is induced if and when the power goes = to zero?=A0 I suspect that = the back pressure is going to have to be relieved slightly in order to = maintain that same AOA.=A0 = And should one choose to bank the airplane at the same time, the = back pressure is going to have to be relieved even more to maintain it = (in one G flight, as mentioned earlier).=A0 As regards this particular = accident, and given the small amount of real data that we actually have = but assuming that the power was lost at 80-100' AGL, I can only imagine = how difficult it would have been for the pilot to push forward on the = stick knowing how little air is separating the aircraft from the ground. = I'm not making any judgements or drawing any conclusions, just sharing = some food for thought. =A0 = <Marv>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 ]

--

Don Morris

dmorris@cableone.net

=

1391 Escalante = Dr.

Prescott, = AZ 86303

928 = 777-0737

928-925-5940 (c)


= --Apple-Mail-6--322491394--