X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Thu, 04 May 2006 18:50:39 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imo-m25.mx.aol.com ([64.12.137.6] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.9) with ESMTP id 1092293 for lml@lancaironline.net; Thu, 04 May 2006 17:57:41 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.137.6; envelope-from=Sky2high@aol.com Received: from Sky2high@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.5.) id q.416.b25933 (3699) for ; Thu, 4 May 2006 17:55:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Sky2high@aol.com X-Original-Message-ID: <416.b25933.318bd26f@aol.com> X-Original-Date: Thu, 4 May 2006 17:55:59 EDT Subject: Re: [LML] Re: AOA X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1146779759" X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5300 X-Spam-Flag: NO -------------------------------1146779759 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/4/2006 11:21:42 A.M. Central Standard Time, marv@lancaironline.net writes: Posted for "N320GG" : Scott, Earl I took a look at the web site recommended by Scott and read most of the 125 pages of instructions. I like the fact that there is no probe. But of course have even more questions. 1) is the sport model "good enough?" 2) How difficult is it to install in a finished airplane? ( my wing tips are not removable, I would be installing through a hole, like a ship in a bottle.) 3) Would you share pictures of where you installed the ports? So little money, so many wants: ( not necessarily ranked) AOA Gami injectors Light Speed ignition Garmin 396, with XM weather Hard wood floor (Oh wait, that is what she wants!) Gary Melton N320GG [Gary, as you may already know, I worked with Jim Frantz (developer of the AOA Sport and Pro) for several years prior to the sale of that business to Advanced and have a pretty good knowledge of the system. Jim installed the ports for the Pro model (same wing installation for both models) through the access hole for his wingtip lights on his 360. There are no electrics out in the wings, just a pair of polyurethane hoses, each about 1/8" in diameter. If you included a string in the wiring bundle running inside your wiring conduit out to the wingtip (always leave a string for future installations) you can easily pull the hoses through that same conduit, along with a replacement string. While it is easier to work out in the end of the wing through a removable wingtip, it is possible to do the installation through a 1.5-2" access hole, although you will be working with hemostats and other tools similar to those used by arthroscopic surgeons . The ports actually need to be inboard of the actual end of the wingtip by 6-8", to keep them out of the disturbed airflow typically present right at the tip. If that is truly an issue for you it is possible to install the ports inside the access chamber for the airleron belcrank that is just outboard of the flaps... frequently this is a preferable location due to its greater accessibility. If you can't run the hoses within your conduit it is acceptable to run them out that access chamber through a small hole in the aft spar into the area that leads back inside the fuselage just forward of the flaps. Lots of people have done this. The actual recommended location for the ports is in the outboard section of the wing (in front of the ailerons) aft of the leading edge anywhere from 15% to 40% of the chord. While the wingtip location is more easily accessed during construction, installation in that access chamber is perfectly acceptable. The Sport and the Pro both operate using the same algorithms and their performance is pretty much identical... both include the aural stall warning that kicks in about 5 degrees of AOA prior to the actual stall. The Pro includes the aural gear warning as standard, the Sport has it as an option. The visual warnings are similar, although the Pro displays 22 steps between zero degrees AOA and the actual stall AOA, the Sport does the job with 8 steps. Both instruments show specific patterns during cruise, at best L/D, at best approach AOA, at stall-5 degrees AOA (stall warning), and at the stall. The biggest advantage to these AOA devices is that they respond to changes in AOA instantaneously, whereas the ASI lags considerably. This is why a departure following an abrupt pullup after a hi-speed pass can be avoided with an AOA, but not with an ASI. The ASI actually gets laggier the closer the wing is to the stall, whereas the AOA actually improves its definition because of its use of differential wing pressures divided by the dynamic pressure. Most Lancair pilots I've flown with who transitioned into the AOA after having flown for awhile without it have noticed that they actually fly slower approaches simply because they have a handle on AOA and they know where 30% or 40% above the stall is precisely, rather than by guesswork or calculation. The AOA is self correcting for angle of bank, changes in gross weight, temp and humidity, and its port installation locations keep them free of ice and dirt. There are no moving parts and nothing sticking into the airstream to increase drag or get bent, damaged, or frozen. (Just a few things I thought I'd toss on while I was going on and on .) If you have any other questions feel free to ask, I'm pretty sure I can answer them. ] -- For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/lml/ What Marv said! I installed mine thru the wingtip position light hole and a hole cut thru the wingtip rib. Piece of cake but, if you have a problem, there is always a neurosurgeon with a Lancair that can help. Scott Krueger AKA Grayhawk Lancair N92EX IO320 CS Prop Slow Build 1989, Flown 1996 Aurora, IL (KARR) Eschew Obfuscation! -------------------------------1146779759 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In a message dated 5/4/2006 11:21:42 A.M. Central Standard Time,=20 marv@lancaironline.net writes:
<= FONT=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size= =3D2>Posted=20 for "N320GG" <n320g@hotmail.com>:

  Scott, Earl
 = ;=20
  I took a look at the web site recommended by Scott and read mos= t of=20 the 125
pages of instructions. I like the fact that there is no=20 probe.  But of course
have even more questions. 1) is the sport mo= del=20 "good enough?"  2)  How
difficult is it to install in a finis= hed=20 airplane? ( my wing tips are not
removable, I would be installing throu= gh a=20 hole, like a ship in a bottle.)  3)
  Would you share picture= s of=20 where you installed the ports?
 
  So little money, so ma= ny=20 wants: ( not necessarily ranked)
  AOA
  Gami=20 injectors
  Light Speed ignition
  Garmin 396, with XM=20 weather
  Hard wood floor (Oh wait, that is what she wants!)
&n= bsp;=20
  Gary Melton
  N320GG

[Gary, as you may already k= now,=20 I worked with Jim Frantz (developer of the AOA
Sport and Pro) for seve= ral=20 years prior to the sale of that business to
Advanced and have a pretty= =20 good knowledge of the system.  Jim installed the
ports for the Pr= o=20 model (same wing installation for both models) through the
access hole= for=20 his wingtip lights on his 360.  There are no electrics out in
the= =20 wings, just a pair of polyurethane hoses, each about 1/8" in diameter.&nbs= p;=20 If
you included a string in the wiring bundle running inside your wiri= ng=20 conduit
out to the wingtip (always leave a string for future=20 installations) you can
easily pull the hoses through that same conduit= ,=20 along with a replacement
string.  While it is easier to work out=20= in=20 the end of the wing through a
removable wingtip, it is possible to do=20= the=20 installation through a 1.5-2"
access hole, although you will be workin= g=20 with hemostats and other tools
similar to those used by arthroscopic=20 surgeons <g>.  The ports actually need
to be inboard of the= =20 actual end of the wingtip by 6-8", to keep them out of
the disturbed=20 airflow typically present right at the tip.  If that is truly an=20
issue for you it is possible to install the ports inside the access=20 chamber
for the airleron belcrank that is just outboard of the flaps..= .=20 frequently
this is a preferable location due to its greater=20 accessibility.  If you can't
run the hoses within your conduit it= is=20 acceptable to run them out that access
chamber through a small hole in= the=20 aft spar into the area that leads back
inside the fuselage just forwar= d of=20 the flaps.  Lots of people have done this.
  The actual=20 recommended location for the ports is in the outboard section of
the w= ing=20 (in front of the ailerons) aft of the leading edge anywhere from 15%
t= o=20 40% of the chord.  While the wingtip location is more easily accessed= =20
during construction, installation in that access chamber is perfectly=20
acceptable.

The Sport and the Pro both operate using the same=20 algorithms and their
performance is pretty much identical... both incl= ude=20 the aural stall warning
that kicks in about 5 degrees of AOA prior to=20= the=20 actual stall.  The Pro
includes the aural gear warning as standar= d,=20 the Sport has it as an option.
The visual warnings are similar, althou= gh=20 the Pro displays 22 steps between
zero degrees AOA and the actual stal= l=20 AOA, the Sport does the job with 8
steps.  Both instruments show=20 specific patterns during cruise, at best L/D, at
best approach AOA, at= =20 stall-5 degrees AOA (stall warning), and at the stall.
The biggest=20 advantage to these AOA devices is that they respond to changes in
AOA=20 instantaneously, whereas the ASI lags considerably.  This is why a=20
departure following an abrupt pullup after a hi-speed pass can be avoi= ded=20 with
an AOA, but not with an ASI.  The ASI actually gets laggier=20= the=20 closer the
wing is to the stall, whereas the AOA actually improves its= =20 definition because
of its use of differential wing pressures divided b= y=20 the dynamic pressure.
Most Lancair pilots I've flown with who transiti= oned=20 into the AOA after
having flown for awhile without it have noticed tha= t=20 they actually fly slower
approaches simply because they have a handle=20= on=20 AOA and they know where 30% or
40% above the stall is precisely, rathe= r=20 than by guesswork or calculation.
The AOA is self correcting for angle= of=20 bank, changes in gross weight, temp
and humidity, and its port=20 installation locations keep them free of ice and
dirt.  There are= no=20 moving parts and nothing sticking into the airstream to
increase drag=20= or=20 get bent, damaged, or frozen.  (Just a few things I thought
I'd t= oss=20 on while I was going on and on <g>.)

If you have any other=20 questions feel free to ask, I'm pretty sure I can answer=20
them.

    <Marv>    ]

--
Fo= r=20 archives and unsub=20 http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/lml/
What Marv said!
 
I installed mine thru the wingtip position light hole and a hole cut th= ru=20 the wingtip rib.  Piece of cake but, if you have a problem, there is al= ways=20 a neurosurgeon with a Lancair that can help.=20
 
Scott Krueger=20 AKA Grayhawk
Lancair N92EX IO320 CS Prop
Slow Build 1989, Flown 1996=20
Aurora, IL (KARR)

Eschew=20 Obfuscation!
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