X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 22:41:48 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from [68.98.211.24] (HELO systems3.net) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.9) with ESMTP id 1070736 for lml@lancaironline.net; Mon, 17 Apr 2006 11:13:50 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.98.211.24; envelope-from=cberland@systems3.net Subject: [LML] Re: TSIO-550 Turbo setup for non-pressurizedLlancairs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C66231.6AF79A31" X-Original-Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 08:13:00 -0700 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-Original-Message-ID: <87C33F695961494D886EB3B6C8A4765106A7AE@s3server.Systems3.local> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: thread-topic: [LML] Re: TSIO-550 Turbo setup for non-pressurizedLlancairs Thread-Index: AcZiMWquYyAQONiwT9G5pSeNlDkWLA== From: "Craig Berland" X-Original-To: "Lancair Mail List" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C66231.6AF79A31 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Response below. Craig,=20 Thanks for the info - much appreciated! A few follow-up questions (if I can bother you with them, and if you = have the time)? 1.) Have you ran into any durability/detonation issues with 8.5:1 and = 38" max boost? I am still building. The engine should arrive this week. = There are several engines built that are close to the same configuration = as mine. No problems to date. I was considering 8.5 and 42". ICP's = would probably be a little high. What are you flying, unpressurized IV? = IV-P How many Hours? Building Typical cruise altitudes and Power settings? We will see. (25,000 at = 32" LOP) 2.) "Looser" turbos (higher A/R ratio) are slightly larger in physical size (bigger housing) than the std TCM/Garrett A/R=3D.5 turbos. That is = what I am considering. Are you using the larger/looser Mirage Turbos Yes, = Mirage Turbo. or the Std TSIO-550 A/R=3D0.5 turbos? Can you maintain 38" to 25,000 ft? Others = report yes. Possible TIT issues?? Do you know the A/R of the Piper = Mirage turbos (the A/R is typically cast into the external turbo housing/face and will be obvious if you look closely - = approx =BD" font size) - I believe they are A/R=3D2.0 (unverified). No, but = I'll check when when the engine arrives. This week, hopefully. 3.) Was your engine originally a TSIO-550 with replaced pistons, or an IO-550 with added turbos? TSIO 550. where was the engine work done? = Performance Engines. Was it dyno tested? Run in yes. Brake dyno, no. Max HP? More than 350. Max Fuel = flow? Will set in the plane at 350 deg ROP. Probably 43 gph or slightly = higher Cruise (75%) Fuel Flow? Unknown 4.) Do you cruise LOP? I will. Do you agree with George Braly (GAMI = and Co) LOP theory / suggestions? Yes!! I am an ex GM power train engineer. = (1000's of dyno hours) George and company have done more good = combustion event work than anybody I have ever talked to. If yes, any = tips on "The Big Pull"? Determine a fuel flow and pull to that from then = on. Calibrate ever once in the while. What are your climb settings (full = rich)? I'm not sure. Something to work out during initial flights. = Depending on temps, I expect to cruise climb anywhere from 150 kt to 165 = kt. to the flight levels. 5.) Can you provide any "typical" info on MP, RPM, Fuel Flow, & CHT in various flight regimes? Must defer to others flying. 6.) Do you know where your timing is set (less advanced than normal to delay/reduce peek cylinder pressure/detonation)? 20-22 BTDC (Retarded = from stock setting)=20 7.) Is your Cam standard? No, experimental. Any other modifications = (Venturi value seats, Yes ceramic piston coating, Yes, I believe in the new ceramic coatings. mild = port/polish, etc)? Yes TCM cast pistons or aftermarket forged pistons? Forged. GAMI or TCM injectors? Built with = TCM, GAMI's will be installed. 8.) Why did you build your own intercoolers? To be different. Bigger? = No, same physical size. More efficient? Yes, that is the theory anyhow. = More cooling for the same delta P. Hopefully, these very expensive = billet end caps will also reduce the delta P. I designed and machined = them, I can't bad mouth them. Cowl/baffle arrangement? TBD. Any data on how much better they are = (temp drop, reduced flow restriction)? Cooling will have to wait unless someone = wants to test them. Flow data coming.....top secret, you know. 9.) If you don't have sonic nozzles (no bleed air), do you have an exhaust muff for cabin heat? IV-P will sonic nozzles. (Talk to TSIO 550 = Legacy guys) Is it on the cross-over tube or on the short turbo exit = pipes? How well does it work in the cold? Size/Source/Photo? 10.) Can you direct me to any "quasi-normal" Legacy owners flying with a = TSIO-550 with the sonic nozzles plugged (Reno racers excluded). = Everybody I know is a Reno racer. See if Lynn Farnsworth is still on = this list. I love to gather their experience also. Well, I have already told you more than I know...I better stop. Craig = Berland ------_=_NextPart_001_01C66231.6AF79A31 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Response=20 below.

Craig, =

Thanks for the info =96 much=20 appreciated!

A few follow-up questions (if I can bother you with = them, and if=20 you have

the time)?

1.) Have you ran into any durability/detonation issues = with=20 8.5:1 and 38" max boost? I am still building.  The engine should = arrive=20 this week. There are several engines built that = are close to=20 the same configuration as mine.  No problems to date. = I was considering 8.5 and 42".  ICP's would = probably=20 be a little high.  What are you flying, = unpressurized=20 IV? IV-P =20 How many Hours? =20 Building

Typical cruise altitudes and Power settings?  We will = see.  (25,000=20 at 32" LOP)

2.) "Looser" turbos (higher A/R ratio) are slightly = larger in=20 physical

size (bigger housing) than the std TCM/Garrett = A/R=3D.5 turbos.=20 That is what

I am considering. Are you using the larger/looser = Mirage=20 Turbos  Yes, = Mirage=20 Turbo.  or the Std

TSIO-550 A/R=3D0.5 turbos? Can you maintain 38" to = 25,000=20 ft? Others=20 report yes. Possible=20 TIT issues?? Do you know=20 the A/R of the Piper Mirage turbos (the A/R is typically cast = into=20 the

external turbo housing/face and will be obvious if you = look=20 closely =96 approx

=BD" font size) =96 = I believe they=20 are A/R=3D2.0 (unverified). No, but I'll=20 check when when the engine arrives.  This week,=20 hopefully.

3.) Was your engine originally a TSIO-550 with = replaced pistons,=20 or an

IO-550 with added turbos?   TSIO 550. where was the engine work = done? Performance Engines.=20 Was it dyno

tested?  Run in yes. Brake dyno, no. Max = HP?   More than 350.=20 Max Fuel flow? Will set in the plane at 350 deg ROP. Probably 43 gph or = slightly=20 higher  Cruise (75%) = Fuel=20 Flow?  Unknown

4.) Do you cruise LOP? =20 I will.  Do you agree with = George Braly=20 (GAMI and Co) LOP

theory / suggestions? Yes!!  I am an ex GM power train engineer.  = (1000's of=20 dyno hours)  George and company have done more good combustion = event work=20 than anybody I have ever talked to. If yes, any tips on = "The Big=20 Pull"? Determine a fuel=20 flow and pull to that from then on. Calibrate ever once in the while.=20 What are your = climb settings=20 (full rich)?  I'm not=20 sure. Something to work out during initial flights. Depending = on=20 temps, I expect to cruise climb anywhere from 150 kt to 165 kt. to the = flight=20 levels.

5.) Can you provide any "typical" info on MP, RPM, = Fuel Flow,=20 & CHT in

various flight regimes? =20 Must defer to others = flying.

6.) Do you know where your timing is set (less = advanced than=20 normal to

delay/reduce peek cylinder pressure/detonation)?  20-22 BTDC = (Retarded from=20 stock setting)

7.) Is your Cam = standard? No, experimental. = Any=20 other modifications (Venturi value seats, Yes

ceramic piston coating, Yes, I believe in the = new ceramic=20 coatings. mild port/polish, etc)? Yes TCM = cast pistons=20 or

aftermarket forged pistons? Forged. = GAMI or TCM=20 injectors?  Built with=20 TCM, GAMI's will be installed.

8.) Why did you build your own = intercoolers? To be different.=20 Bigger? No, same physical size. More = efficient? Yes, that is the = theory=20 anyhow.  More cooling for the same delta P.  Hopefully, these = very=20 expensive billet end caps will also reduce the delta P.  I designed = and=20 machined them, I can't bad mouth them.

Cowl/baffle arrangement?   TBD.  = Any=20 data on how much better they are (temp drop,

reduced flow restriction)? =20 Cooling will have to wait unless someone wants to = test=20 them.  Flow data coming.....top secret, you = know.

9.) If you don=92t have sonic nozzles (no bleed air), = do you have=20 an

exhaust muff for cabin heat?  IV-P will sonic = nozzles.=20 (Talk to TSIO 550 Legacy guys) Is it on the = cross-over tube=20 or on the short turbo exit = pipes? How well=20 does it work in the cold? Size/Source/Photo?

10.) Can you direct me to any "quasi-normal" Legacy = owners=20 flying with a TSIO-550 with the = sonic=20 nozzles plugged (Reno racers excluded). Everybody I know is a Reno racer.  See if Lynn Farnsworth is still on this list. = I love=20 to gather their experience=20 also.

Well, = I have=20 already told you more than I know...I better stop. Craig=20 Berland

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