X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 09:29:36 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([209.86.89.70] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.9) with ESMTP id 1067314 for lml@lancaironline.net; Thu, 13 Apr 2006 08:49:07 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.86.89.70; envelope-from=rtitsworth@mindspring.com DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=mindspring.com; b=pikZLmLQzoavfIDQX6IRuuwqsYuFnR0gIrpzCtkKLgtoqir10vsoXoXIyKWbobOs; h=Received:Reply-To:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Mailer:in-reply-to:X-MimeOLE:Thread-Index:Message-ID:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [72.245.36.12] (helo=RDTVAIO) by elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1FU1FG-0003SS-PI for lml@lancaironline.net; Thu, 13 Apr 2006 08:48:23 -0400 Reply-To: From: "richard titsworth" X-Original-To: "'Lancair Mailing List'" Subject: RE: [LML] Re: fixed-pitch prop X-Original-Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 08:48:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01CC_01C65ED6.F9C30E00" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 in-reply-to: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-Index: AcZesasiA8rQMkMVRzG5T0T6vT1ybgARM0Zg X-Original-Message-ID: X-ELNK-Trace: b17f11247b2ac8f0a79dc4b33984cbaa0a9da525759e2654fc709e9d3b12a208ed1e7659c4055fa5bd9aa8b00e01cd47350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 72.245.36.12 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01CC_01C65ED6.F9C30E00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Can you explain the thumb/finger glide estimate technique a little = better? Or suggested a reference for additional reading? Always wanted to get some glider time/training. Your post got my = interest peaked again. Thanks, Rick =20 p.s. During my multi-engine training, I once (too quickly) shut down the good (wrong) engine after the instructor had purposely shut down the = first. Big mistake - it got very quiet. The restart was uneventful, but the = few seconds of pure glide are still very vivid in my mind. =20 =20 _____ =20 From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of = bob mackey Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 12:21 AM To: Lancair Mailing List Subject: [LML] Re: fixed-pitch prop =20 Grayhawk wrote:=20 > Bob, I am glad to see you mention the 10:1 ratio, would you use=20 > that ratio if you lost the engine and the prop was still rotating? First, I should say that I probably have more engine-out and off-airport landings than landings at airports and with an engine. I've been flying hanggliders and sailplanes for 20+ years. There's a cliche about the=20 glider pilot who goes to get his engine rating added to his pilot = license.=20 After a few lessons, the instructor pulls the throttle. While most power pilots tense up at this point, the glider pilot heaves a sigh of relief and continues the flight to the planned destination :-) Occasionally that is literally true.=20 Back to the Lancair though... it would take a tremendous thermal=20 to climb away from the ground without the engine, so assume=20 I'll be landing soon after the engine quits. In still air, with mixture=20 pulled to cutoff, I see about 700 fpm descent at 100 kias.=20 That's pretty close to Paul's 15:1 idle-glide ratio.=20 If the engine quits over inhospitable terrain, I'll figure about=20 500 ft lost per mile. I'll also be aiming for a field within about=20 7:1 glide to a point 1000 feet above the field.=20 I'll be using visual cues primarily. With my thumb against the bridge of my nose, I put the top of my index finger on the horizon.=20 If I can see something under the finger, I can fly to it with a 7:1 = glide.=20 For 15:1, I use the tip of my thumb against my forehead and=20 put my pinky fingernail on the horizon. The pad of the pinky is=20 little better than 15:1.=20 Likewise I fly angles through the pattern to landing rather than = numbers.=20 This is especially important at a field you've never seen before, at=20 an unknown altitude, and with no services (or paved runways).=20 I could go on for hours about how to identify a good field versus a=20 bad field for landing. There are literally hundreds of visual cues you can use to identify a field's slope, texture, hardness and so on.=20 Similarly there are many ways to see wind direction without a=20 windsock or an AWOS.=20 One of these days, I'll go out to Castle Air Force Base and measure the=20 glide ratio of my 235 with the prop stopped. If I can stop the prop, = I'll measure=20 sink rate at a few speeds before landing on the 12000 foot runway.=20 Like Gary, I'll be using about 3000 feet of that for the actual landing. = -bob mackey _____ =20 Blab-away for as little as 1=A2/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with = Voice. ------=_NextPart_000_01CC_01C65ED6.F9C30E00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Can you explain the thumb/finger = glide estimate technique a little better?=A0 Or suggested a reference for = additional reading?

Always wanted to get some glider time/training.=A0 Your post got my interest peaked = again.

Thanks,

=

Rick

 

p.s. During my multi-engine = training, I once (too quickly) shut down the good (wrong) engine after the instructor had = purposely shut down the first.=A0 Big mistake - it got very quiet. =A0The restart = was uneventful, but the few seconds of pure glide are still very vivid in my = mind.

 

 

From: = Lancair Mailing List = [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of bob mackey
Sent: Thursday, April 13, = 2006 12:21 AM
To: Lancair Mailing List
Subject: [LML] Re: = fixed-pitch prop

 

Grayhawk = wrote:
> Bob, I am glad = to see you mention the 10:1 ratio, would you use
> that ratio if you lost the engine and the prop was still rotating?

First, I should say that I probably have more engine-out and = off-airport
landings than landings at airports and with an engine. I've been = flying
hanggliders and sailplanes for 20+ years. There's a cliche about the =
glider pilot who goes to get his engine rating added to his pilot = license.
After a few lessons, the instructor pulls the throttle. While most = power
pilots tense up at this point, the glider pilot heaves a sigh of = relief
and continues the flight to the planned destination :-)
Occasionally that is literally true.

Back to the Lancair though... it would take a tremendous thermal
to climb away from the ground without the engine, so assume
I'll be landing soon after the engine quits. In still air, with mixture =
pulled to cutoff, I see about 700 fpm descent at 100 kias.
That's pretty close to Paul's 15:1 idle-glide ratio.

If the engine quits over inhospitable terrain, I'll figure about
500 ft lost per mile. I'll also be aiming for a field within about
7:1 glide to a point 1000 feet above the field.
I'll be using visual cues primarily.  With my thumb against the
bridge of  my nose, I put the top of my index finger on the = horizon.
If I can see something under the finger, I can fly to it with a 7:1 = glide.

For 15:1, I use the tip of my thumb against my forehead and
put my pinky fingernail on the horizon. The pad of the pinky is
little better than 15:1.

Likewise I fly angles through the pattern to landing rather than = numbers.
This is especially important at a field you've never seen before, at =
an unknown altitude, and with no services (or paved runways).
I could go on for hours about how to identify a good field versus a
bad field for landing. There are literally hundreds of visual cues = you
can use to identify a field's slope, texture, hardness and so on.
Similarly there are many ways to see wind direction without a
windsock or an AWOS.

One of these days, I'll go out to Castle Air Force Base and measure the =
glide ratio of my 235 with the prop stopped. If I can stop the prop, = I'll measure
sink rate at a few speeds before landing on the 12000 foot runway.
Like Gary, I'll be using about 3000 feet of that for the actual landing.

-bob mackey

Blab-away for as little as 1=A2/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with = Voice.

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