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Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 01:54:45 -0500
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Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Runway checks, passes, flybys
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From: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder@perigee.net>
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On Tue, 24 Jan 2006 10:17:32 -0500, Lorn H Olsen <lorn@dynacomm.ws> wrote:

Snip
> Now for the question of high speed. Exactly what is high speed? I was  
> invited to sit on the end of the runway at Mc Guire AFB one day with a  
> colonel bringing in a flight of F-105s. I could hear ATC calling slow  
> moving traffic at 12 o'clock 2 miles and then 1 mile. I was thinking  
> that could be me trolling around the New Jersey countryside in a C-152.  
> How fast were the F-105s going? If I recall correctly, ailerons were not  
> to be used below 300 (or was it 350) kts for fear of snap rolls, rudders  
> only below that speed. ATC did call one time and ask for the speed to be  
> reduced to below 250 kts. The response was that their request could not  
> be complied with. Touch down speed that day was 220 kts, drag chutes  
> came out at 180 kts and brakes could be used below 120 kts and all  
> 10,000 feet of the runway was used. Was that fast? What is Fast?

  Lorn -

I just checked my flight manual (Dash One) on the F-105 (Thud). Both the  
ailerons and spoilers were fully active throughout the entire envelope  
with one exception: at > 700 knots KCAS, the ailerons were  automatically  
locked out and the mechanical advantage of the stick in the pitch axis  
began to be reduced with airspeed by a shifter to prevent over G. The 105  
was never a rudder machine, compared to the F-100 and the F-4. One rarely  
used rudder in the pattern, or anywhere else, unless the external store  
configuration, or a slightly mis-rigged control required it. And, of  
course if you had about 3 or more G's on the aircraft and wanted to yank  
and bank, the rudder was necessary.

Pattern was as follows: 1500 AGL 350 KCAS for initial approach. Break with  
a level 4 G turn (approx 60 degrees of bank)  to downwind with power  
pulled back to 80-85% RPM. Speedbrakes: open in the break. Roll out on  
downwind would be about 220 - 240 KCAS and the gear came down below 240.  
Full flaps (TE and LE) down and maintain 210 -220 on the base turn to  
final. Final, with 2  x 450 gallon tanks (empty) was 180 plus 2 knots per  
1000 pounds of fuel. Touchdown was between 162 and 165 KCAS. Chute  
deployment speed was a max of 200 KCAS. Touchdown was aimed at the 1000'  
marker. Brakes were anti-skid and could be used at any time; although  
cautiously until down around 140. Since most fighter bases (and I believe  
McGuire at the time) had single runways and only one taxiway, we always  
used the full runway because the drag chute jettison areas were at the  
end, as were the de-arm crews. This also saved brakes and taxi conflicts.  
If that colonel saw 4 Thuds touchdown at 220 KCAS and delay the chutes  
until 180, I guarantee that the pilots would have been severely chastised,  
the flight leader removed from lead status and the mobile controller  
banished to a full month of duty therein.

It was a relatively fast pattern, but easy to fly. BTW, on a go around,  
you accelerated to about 300 KCAS by the far end of the runway before  
pulling up to a downwind - provided you requested a closed pattern and the  
tower cleared it.

Hope this helps. BTW, was the colonel's name Russ Schoonover?

Cheers,

John