X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 10:15:19 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from mtai01.charter.net ([209.225.8.181] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.7f) with ESMTP id 951731 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 24 Jan 2006 07:41:48 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.225.8.181; envelope-from=farnsworth@charter.net Received: from mxip21-10.charter.net ([10.20.202.71]) by mtai01.charter.net (InterMail vM.6.01.06.00 201-2131-130-20051209) with ESMTP id <20060124124057.OOPN10183.mtai01.charter.net@mxip21-10.charter.net> for ; Tue, 24 Jan 2006 07:40:57 -0500 Received: from 71-12-160-183.dhcp.gwnt.ga.charter.com (HELO Farnsworth) ([71.12.160.183]) by mxip21-10.charter.net with SMTP; 24 Jan 2006 07:40:57 -0500 X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAA+k= From: "Farnsworth" X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" Subject: RE: [LML] Re: Runway checks, passes, flybys. X-Original-Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 07:41:12 -0500 X-Original-Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C620B9.8C62ED90" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 In-reply-to: Importance: Normal This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C620B9.8C62ED90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jeff, As I said, "stupid is stupid, but airspeed in and of itself does not make stupid". My old employer, The USAF, did teach me the ILS low approach to a closed full stop landing, but the airspeed before the closed was way above 200 KTS. What would an FAA inspector say if he saw me fly the afore mentioned ILS, closed, full stop landing (not exceeding 200 KTS )? That is a good question. Since I didn't exceed 200 KTS , didn't exceed 60 degrees of bank, didn't conflict with traffic, and made an uneventful landing I don't see that he/she would have grounds to say or do anything. But there is always that old lack of judgment catch 22 that he could employ because he doesn't think that a closed pattern has any place in the civilian world. Ask Bob Hoover about FAA inspectors. Or, he might be like the very first Fed I ever saw. This is the man who gave me my Private Pilot check ride way back when. We were in a Cessna 150. After I satisfied him I was a "safe" pilot and could be entrusted with the privilege of carrying passengers ( I had passed the check ride ) he said, "let me show you how the pylon racers fly". He then picked out a short course and around and around we went. I am well aware that people have killed themselves an innocent passengers/bystanders with "ass shining". I just think that just maybe you are using a very broad brush when painting your "ass shining" picture. I've seen a couple of cases of stupid here in my area in the last couple of weeks, and they didn't involve "ass shining". One was a Sirrus 22 that deployed his chute after becoming encrusted with ice and entering a spin. The other was at my uncontrolled airport where there was traffic pattern work and some practice ILS work going on mixed with a few arrivals. The wind was 4-5 KTS out of the south, but to accommodate the ILS the local traffic was landing to the north. There were a few small fires in the area which blew the smoke to the north. Everyone was making radio calls showing use of the use RW 01. Here comes a Cessna 182 into the area. He makes his radio calls saying he plans to enter downwind for RW 19. I heard him amongst all the radio calls calling their positions in the RW 01 pattern. With all the other radio calls I thought he would figure it out shortly. But I was wrong, he proceeded in oblivion. Finally I made a radio call that he was going against traffic. Then he says, "what, is everyone using RW 01? OK, I'll land with a tail wind. Then he proceeds to touch down 4,000' down a 6,000 ' RW. The newspapers never get it right and paint a black picture regardless. My insurance agent thinks it is safer if I never fly. What would the local kids think? I'm not sure there is much one can do the change the way teenagers think anyway. The accident would probably say I was "shining my ass" even though I really wasn't. (tongue in cheek) I do understand where you are coming from, I just think your brush is too wide. Regards, Lynn ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C620B9.8C62ED90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Jeff,
 
As I=20 said, "stupid is stupid, but airspeed in and of itself does not make=20 stupid".
 
My old=20 employer, The USAF, did teach me the ILS low approach to a closed full = stop=20 landing, but the airspeed before the closed was way above 200=20 KTS.
 
What=20 would an FAA inspector say if he saw  me fly the afore = mentioned ILS,=20 closed, full stop landing (not exceeding 200 KTS )? That is a good = question.=20 Since I didn't exceed 200 KTS , didn't exceed 60 degrees of bank, = didn't=20 conflict with traffic, and made an uneventful landing I don't see that = he/she=20 would have grounds to say or do anything. But there is always that old = lack of=20 judgment catch 22 that he could employ because he doesn't think = that a=20 closed pattern has any place in the civilian world. Ask Bob = Hoover about=20 FAA inspectors.
 
Or, he=20 might be like the very first Fed I ever saw. This is the man who gave me = my=20 Private Pilot check ride way back when. We were in a Cessna 150. After I = satisfied him I was a "safe" pilot and could be entrusted with the = privilege of=20 carrying passengers ( I had passed the check ride ) he said, "let me = show you=20 how the pylon racers fly". He then picked out a short course and around = and=20 around we went.
 
I am=20 well aware that people have killed themselves an innocent = passengers/bystanders=20 with "ass shining". I just think that just maybe you are using a very = broad=20 brush when painting your "ass shining" picture.
 
I've=20 seen a couple of cases of stupid here in my area in the last couple of = weeks,=20 and they didn't involve "ass shining". One was a Sirrus 22 that deployed = his=20 chute after becoming encrusted with ice and entering a spin. The other = was at my=20 uncontrolled airport where there was traffic pattern work and some = practice ILS=20 work going on mixed with a few arrivals. The wind was 4-5 KTS out of the = south,=20 but to accommodate the ILS the local traffic was landing to the north. = There=20 were a few small fires in the area which blew the smoke to the=20 north.
 
Everyone was making radio calls showing use of the use RW 01. = Here comes=20 a Cessna 182 into the area. He makes his radio calls saying he plans to = enter=20 downwind for RW 19. I heard him amongst all the radio calls calling = their=20 positions in the RW 01 pattern. With all the other radio calls I thought = he=20 would figure it out shortly. But I was wrong, he proceeded in oblivion. = Finally=20 I made a radio call that he was going against traffic. Then he says, = "what, is=20 everyone using RW 01? OK, I'll land with a tail wind. Then he proceeds = to touch=20 down 4,000' down a 6,000 ' RW.
 
The=20 newspapers never get it right and paint a black picture=20 regardless.
 
My=20 insurance agent thinks it is safer if I never fly.
 
What would the local kids think? I'm not sure there is = much one can=20 do the change the way teenagers think anyway.
 
The=20 accident would probably say I was "shining my ass" even though I really = wasn't.=20 (tongue in cheek)
 
I do=20 understand where you are coming from, I just think your brush is too=20 wide.
 
Regards,
 
Lynn
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